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Rethinking Triplebyte

triplebyte.com

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Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#291
post #56

I see a lot of people in the comments describe triplebyte as a “market leader” and discuss how good they are. I can’t believe how gullible everyone is especially on a startup forum. Let me spell it out to y’all, nobody pivots and changes their entire business model if they are crushing it. So the implication is that triplebyte are not crushing it. So, this probably has gone the same way as lots of other tech startups…

Fair comment. I certainly don't think of us as a market leader. LinkedIn is the market leader. Honestly, the last year has been pretty hard for us (COVID and the problems with our model that I talk about in the post). That said, I think a hiring process that puts engineers in control (no ghosting, get data on when a recruiter looks at your application, search ranking by whether companies lie to candidates) is somethi…

Fair warning.

There is a large pool of people who think that they are programmers, but are not. This is exactly what the infamous fizzbuzz test was intended to weed out. I personally know a top notch recruiter who credits her success due to learning early in her career how to filter most of the junk out. For example a "Perl programmer" who listed Microsoft Word as a skill was probably not worth looking at. (Note, this is an example from 20 years ago. But the principle remains.)

If you create an engineer focused site and DON'T find a way to segment engineers by ability, you'll find that your negotiating power is based on the average of your candidate pool. Which means that you'll discover why traditional recruiters kowtow to companies and not the other way around.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#292
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much is a referral worth to companies? $1,000? If so, their revenue is only ~$1m, but they've raised $48m.

I have no idea what Triplebyte gets or even what their business model is, but typical recruitment companies get a lot more than that -- on the order of 15-20% of the first year's salary, so on the order of $15-25k. I suspect Triplebyte is less than that, but could be an order of magnitude more than you've guessed.

2 months salary, like an engagement ring ;-)

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#293
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair comment. I certainly don't think of us as a market leader. LinkedIn is the market leader. Honestly, the last year has been pretty hard for us (COVID and the problems with our model that I talk about in the post). That said, I think a hiring process that puts engineers in control (no ghosting, get data on when a recruiter looks at your application, search ranking by whether companies lie to candidates) is somethi…

> I think a hiring process that puts engineers in control (no ghosting, get data on when a recruiter looks at your application, search ranking by whether companies lie to candidates) is something that should exist. I want to try to build it! This is a space that unions fill well compared to for-profit recruiting agencies. The organizations give engineers control and leverage in hiring, and can help them up-negotiate.…

Oh HELL no.

Collective bargaining is inherently about eliminating competition between workers. That is, it creates a labour monopoly to balance out a labour monopsony. That might (might!) be a good thing for autoworkers. It would be an unmitigated disaster for software engineers, and the tech sector in general.

People who write code are unbelievably productive compared to just about any other job function, and software engineers (who we'll define as people who write code for tech companies) are even more so. Part of eliminating competition between workers is making sure that nobody works harder than anyone else. That would be devastating to the productivity of software engineers, which would make them less valuable to tech companies. That would lead to a decline in salaries, and general stagnation of tech.

Another aspect of preventing competition is seniority. One of the archetypes of the tech world is the wunderkind—the brilliant kid fresh out of school that rockets to the top. A union would tell that kid, "sorry, you'll have to pay your dues as a junior engineer for 5 more years, then you'll be eligible for promotion. In the meantime, we'll give that job to cwp, he's got the required seniority."

Just think how this would affect tech companies. Sorry, you can't pay more to attract the best. If you're really careful about interviewing, you might be able to find some people with both skill and seniority, but it'll be tough because smart, ambitious people have all gone to Wall St or whatever industry has the best opportunities.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#294
I clicked into this article knowing nothing about Triplebyte (not meant to insult), at all, and after reading the first paragraph, I'll admit I jumped to a whole bunch of conclusions, the worst of which was probably:

I wonder what 'fad-diet' solution this company I've never heard of is pitching for either (A) getting me an engineer or (B) getting me a job as an engineer. Oh, let me guess, you're going to find those magical engineers who come from non-traditional backgrounds or magically making it possible to both "identify the top 5% of Ruby on Rails developers with no fewer than 2 years of React Devops Cloud Experience"[0].

Going from that, if you RTA -- I was pretty horrified to hear what they thought would be effective in this space. I realize you'll have to take my word for it that there were literal sentences in there spoken as "good ideas" that would have literally had me thinking "oh, so this company's some form of scam" had I happened upon them before they chose to reverse these ideas. I gotta say, public profiles, entrance exams in an attempt to "hack hiring"[2] don't know what this company is. I have to take everyone's word for it that they're somehow big in this space as I haven't looked for a job, nor been responsible for finding viable job candidates[1], so that's probably me.

I was kind-of torn about his apology. It was really un?-professional (I mean that as a compliment but I can't find a way to say 'not corporate-fake' either in 'sorry-not-sorry', 'deflection' or with what appeared to be much concern for what the lawyers have to say on the subject. I don't know that the lawyers would have to say much on the subject but I'm told that this is often the reason why companies manage always manage to communicate "Sorry,... (assholes...)" every time they apologize. There's always that miserable thing, they're going along "We apologize to our customers ..." it's looking good "... for the inconvenience this outage has caused." Seems simple enough, except you've taken no responsibility -- the outage was to your software, or your hardware, running on wires that you pay for which you are supposed to have redundancy for, and all of this stuff is outside of your core competency but there are many companies who can help if you're willing to spend. And I'm sure when the issue happened, there was a key choice that had you spending a large amount of money and me getting a flight home; which you also chose to inconvenience me over.

But Triplebyte wasn't Southwest. I think the author went a little over the top on the apology, almost crossing into the "trying too hard", except that the things he was apologizing for -- basically, being blind to some pretty obvious problems -- were kind of spot on. Please don't think I'm trying to throw some sort of slant compliment; I realize I sort-of sounded like a dick.

There's no malice in that statement; I've been more blind to things I should have know that were right in front of me than a silly business model decision made too quickly. I am certain I have not apologized this clearly/bluntly.

And the thing of it is, if it hadn't been done so well, I probably would have read the first two paragraphs, closed the tab and made a mental note to never touch them -- basically, having them go from "I don't know who they are" to "probably a scam". It's the risk a company takes when their apology gets attention beyond "people who (currently) care". I am not currently hunting, but I'm all around it on the "need to hire someone" side and I have no guarantee I'll keep my current job, forever.

Thinking about it -- I've now read a very long post and written a very long comment about a company that I had never heard of and upon hearing about them, couldn't care less about their services (the space, yes, deeply). They'll probably be the first address I put into the bar if my needs change in the next year or so because I can't name a single other place I'd actually look. This guy might be an evil genius; if I suddenly have a strong desire to change employment in the next three months, I call witchcraft and there'll be pitch forks and hay, or...something. :)

[0] I must have been in a really bad mood because HN has never been a place that promotes that crap to the level of this post, so that should have been my signal that there was something of value here, and I'm glad I stuck it out.

[1] Mostly only interviewing; we have a pretty spectacular individual who has extensive knowledge about hiring for the rather broadly scoped kinds of work that just my tiny team in the 100-or-so company that employs me. I have a process that, though I am always tweaking, the major points are about as perfect a process. I've commented like this on that subject many times in the past if you want to be super bored. :)

[2] I'm confident in my abilities as a software engineer; push comes to shove, there's many, many ways to make enough money to live reasonably in most parts of the US. I've never had problems making money writing software, either directly for an employer or on contract, independently. Neither my wife nor myself have completed a 4-year degree (though I was one semester away; long story), she did a job that does not require a degree -- became a Realtor -- before we met, six-figures in 2003? I think. The most Senior guys on infrastructure pulled that where I worked (they paid a little under average for the role/area but like 1-2%).

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#295
Triplebyte as an idea is great. As someone else pointed out, they are obviously not doing well financially, or they wouldn't have pivoted. I think their pivot will not work, though. They have gone from a unique thing that saves engineers lots of time (in theory at least), to another job board. How many of those do we need? How many companies would even want to partner with a place that forces them to give up so much of their own power? I don't see this one working out.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to build it, or you want to make money off it? As CEO, you: * Grossly expanded profiles without user permission. * Laid off tons of staff right before the COVID lockdowns. (What has been your personal returns since April 1, 2020 by the way?) * You have been privy to discrimination happening in client company on-sites yet did nothing to the client companies. You’re a CFO, an investor. You’re not a CEO, and yo…

Oof, burn.

Well, I witnessed one of the reports of discrimination, and his response made me puke. So I’m a bit biased.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#297
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really glad that the old process worked so well for you. When it worked, it was pretty great. We are losing something with this pivot. The problem is that the old process did not work for far more people than it did. For every wonderful experience with a TM there were 10+ engineers who we screened out. That’s why we made this change.

> For every wonderful experience with a TM there were 10+ engineers who we screened out. maybe (and i know that this is an outré thing to say these days) that was the point.

I think it probably was the point, but I'm guessing the primary issue with it was that it turned out to be harder to profit with that strategy.

To use a rough biological analogy, I think it's generally a lot easier to have a big, rapidly growing company if you take an r-selection rather than a K-selection approach.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#298
post #56

I see a lot of people in the comments describe triplebyte as a “market leader” and discuss how good they are. I can’t believe how gullible everyone is especially on a startup forum. Let me spell it out to y’all, nobody pivots and changes their entire business model if they are crushing it. So the implication is that triplebyte are not crushing it. So, this probably has gone the same way as lots of other tech startups…

Fair comment. I certainly don't think of us as a market leader. LinkedIn is the market leader. Honestly, the last year has been pretty hard for us (COVID and the problems with our model that I talk about in the post). That said, I think a hiring process that puts engineers in control (no ghosting, get data on when a recruiter looks at your application, search ranking by whether companies lie to candidates) is somethi…

I can't remember the last time I was ghosted. The problems you listed aren't problems that I experience. I don't care what part of my resume recruiters look at. I don't care what they do with it.

Sure, having metrics on how often a company ships code, etc. would be helpful, but frankly I have about 10 companies on my list that I'd work for, and I doubt any of them would give you this data.

What I'd really like is not having to practice leet code problems for 3 months before I interview. The older I get, the less motivated I am to do this. I've worked in senior engineering roles at big tech (FANG) with 3+ years tenure. I don't think I managed to not be able to do my job and fooled people for that long.

I've interviewed people I KNOW could do the job, but they didn't get the optimal solution, or were nervous, or N things in the loop, and we ended up not hiring them. There must be some incentive to create a system that lowers these false negatives.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#299
post #298
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair comment. I certainly don't think of us as a market leader. LinkedIn is the market leader. Honestly, the last year has been pretty hard for us (COVID and the problems with our model that I talk about in the post). That said, I think a hiring process that puts engineers in control (no ghosting, get data on when a recruiter looks at your application, search ranking by whether companies lie to candidates) is somethi…

I can't remember the last time I was ghosted. The problems you listed aren't problems that I experience. I don't care what part of my resume recruiters look at. I don't care what they do with it. Sure, having metrics on how often a company ships code, etc. would be helpful, but frankly I have about 10 companies on my list that I'd work for, and I doubt any of them would give you this data. What I'd really like is not…

I have had this exact experience with Triplebyte both as an engineer and as a hiring manager.

I simply do not care about things like, “what does malloc return”. I do not care what people know about bloom filters in Postgres. The 99.99% of web developers don’t have to know these things. I do not care if you can implement Tic-Tac-Toe.

It’s poor interviewing, which is the entire product they’ve been offering.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#300
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small bit of feedback here. I tried TripleByte a couple of years ago and the experience was really polished. I passed the interview and got great detailed feedback which I really appreciated. However, I dropped out completely because TripleByte wouldn't let me see companies without entering in a desired comp number. My recruiter at triplebyte said I could just put in "$1 or $1,000,000" to get past it, but that just…

I never, ever, ever give anyone a number until the salary negotiation stage of the interview (ie. after I've been given a job offer), and even then I only give the company a number as a counter to their offer. I always do this negotiation myself, and never let anyone else negotiate for me. Almost all recruiters have been fine with that, but a couple haven't. To such people I wish a good day and go my own way. There a…

conversely, I discuss compensation immediately. In the segment of the market I'm in, I've wasted too much time going through interview processes only to get to the end and find out they're incapable of even matching my current comp. I've found being candid more successful.
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