After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?' • Hacker News Board

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#121

Post by tmountain » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

whydoineedthis wrote: post #48

People say it failed without recognizing how bad the crack epidemic was, and is currently only a shadow of what it could be had it been left unchecked. Yes, there are still drug problems - but not to the common extent you saw in the 80's. I think the issue is that people hear the word "war" and think that only the cops and military are the sole soldiers. There is only so much they can be expected to capture without s…

Drug epidemics follow a natural ebb and flow and tend to be generational. As younger family members take note of the effect that life ruining drugs like crack have on elder members of their families, they have a much lower propensity to experiment with those drugs. As communities collectively recognize the impact of drugs like crack, social outreach and grassroots efforts to educate and improve the situation are much more effective than the fear of whatever legal repercussions might come from outside. Crack literally "ran its course" and that's why the epidemic stopped.

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/19/us/crack-s-legacy-a-speci...

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#122

Post by dfraser992 » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

ElViajero wrote: post #8

> "The war on drugs was an absolute miscalculation of human behavior," said Kassandra Frederique, who heads the Drug Policy Alliance, a national group that advocates for total drug decriminalization. For me it would be incredibly interesting to know how much it was a miscalculation or actually it was very well calculated. The "War on Drugs" have failed to make USA safer, healthier or any other positive metric. But, i…

"Drug Warriors and Their Prey" takes a look at the WoSD from another angle [0]

Basically, the WoSD 'was' (still is?) a mechanism by which authoritarians could impose control on society by oppressing society's undesirables. Echos of the Nazis, engender a police state, control Black people, etc etc.

But the WoSD hasn't gone so well, so it (as the main phenomena) was been supplanted by the War On Terrorism (cue the Patriot Act...) That has gotten a bit stale (but is still in effect?), so now it's ... Russians? Covid-19 and all the relevant restrictions?

Or the GOP has decided to stop being indirect and now is going blatantly full out towards overt authoritarianism using The Big Lie as the mechanism? In some parallel universe, liberals are now being rounded up and put into FEMA re-education camps on President-For-Life Trump's orders because they tried to steal the election (and every future one as well).

There is no one Single True Motivation to this sort of social phenomena - they are all different expressions of the sociopaths in charge's drives for power.

[0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drug-Warriors-Their-Prey-Police/dp/...

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#123

Post by karaterobot » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

coopsmoss wrote: post #74

bgroins wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasoning is well established at this point. It was started by the Nixon administration to reduce the amount of left and left-leaning voters, particularly black Americans. "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the…

I still find it abhorrent that incarcerated people can't vote in the US. That seems so obviously exploitable.

As with so many generalizations about the U.S., it's more complicated than that, and varies on a state-by-state basis.

Most people in jail retain the right to vote, regardless of state.

People currently in prison on felony charges CANNOT vote in most states, but this is up to each state. In many states, you get your enfranchisement restored after completing your sentence.

https://www.thoughtco.com/where-felons-can-and-cannot-vote-3...

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#124

Post by HumblyTossed » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

coopsmoss wrote: post #74

bgroins wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasoning is well established at this point. It was started by the Nixon administration to reduce the amount of left and left-leaning voters, particularly black Americans. "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the…

I still find it abhorrent that incarcerated people can't vote in the US. That seems so obviously exploitable.

And even when people vote to try and correct it (Florida), the GOP find some other reason to stop it.

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#125

Post by pmoriarty » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

bgroins wrote: post #19

ElViajero wrote: post #8

> "The war on drugs was an absolute miscalculation of human behavior," said Kassandra Frederique, who heads the Drug Policy Alliance, a national group that advocates for total drug decriminalization. For me it would be incredibly interesting to know how much it was a miscalculation or actually it was very well calculated. The "War on Drugs" have failed to make USA safer, healthier or any other positive metric. But, i…

The reasoning is well established at this point. It was started by the Nixon administration to reduce the amount of left and left-leaning voters, particularly black Americans. "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the…

I'm about as anti War on Drugs as it's possible to get, but agree with those who consider that quote to be highly suspect.

Ehrlichman supposedly said it in a private interview with Baum, and there was no public record of it for 22 years after it was said, and 17 years after Ehrlichman died.

It's very rare to hear such mea culpas from powerful, politically adept figures that cast their subjects in such a negative light. When they speak of their actions at all they tend to talk of them with plenty of room for interpretation and plausible deniability -- especially if they're lawyers, as Ehrlichman was.

So as much as I believe that the War on Drugs was in fact in great part a racist war and one greatly based on suppression of dissent and the 60's and 70's counterculture, I very much doubt that Ehrlichman ever confessed.

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#126

Post by rjbwork » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

fosk wrote: post #98

Besides the controversial political agenda behind the "War on Drugs", I guess we all agree that drugs are obviously bad for society as a whole. But it's kinda hard to do a war on drugs without - you know - arresting the drug dealers on known corners. Looking at you San Francisco. Drugs enable misery, poverty, overdoses and homicides. Especially the ones that create physical addiction (opioids, meth, fentanyl, etc). B…

I think drugs are great for society as a whole. I think criminalizing a handful of addictive drugs so that there is no economically viable way to be an addict and live an even minimally productive life or keep from poisoning yourself is terrible for society as a whole.

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#127

Post by world_peace42 » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

And yet, there are considerably more drugs here than in China. I think the failure of the war on drugs is more of an example of how ineffective the US government and political system is, rather than the separate idea of waging war on the drug trade.

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#128

Post by Falling3 » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #79

bgroins wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasoning is well established at this point. It was started by the Nixon administration to reduce the amount of left and left-leaning voters, particularly black Americans. "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the…

It's worth noting that Dan Baum didn't publish this quote until 16 years after Ehrilchman had already died.

Thanks - I was wondering why I remembered that information coming to light so much more recently.

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#129

Post by kaesar14 » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #25

pope_meat wrote: post #3

Created a lot of jobs in the industry of arresting and detaining humans. Being number 1 per capita in prison population isn't a lean operation, a lot of people's lives depend on the system continuing. I think the solution is to rent bulldozers, armor them, and just level a bunch of them. Too many prison beds, too many laws, it's all gotten very dumb.

> Created a lot of jobs in the industry of arresting and detaining humans. What portion of those arrested + detained are the type of people we want in society/civilization?

What portion of those who benefit from this system and who run our country’s legal system do we want in civilization? Betting the portion in the slammer is higher.

Re: After 50 years of the war on drugs, 'what good is it doing for us?'

#130

Post by damagednoob » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

alamortsubite wrote: post #41

I feel like Ehrlichman admitting the war on drugs was just a pretext for marginalizing Blacks and progressives should have been the end of it. But no, and that's already 25 years ago: In a 1994 interview published in Harper's Magazine, Nixon adviser John Ehrlichman suggested racial animus was among the motives shaping the drug war. "We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the [Vietnam] War or Black,"…

For me, the slogan in the 90s that I remember was 'think of the children'[1]. People are so often swayed on emotion and the thinking of 'well if we just save one child, it would have been worth it', ignoring all the opportunity costs.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMpiL-JU4jM [1999]