Advanced console.log Tips and Tricks (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Advanced console.log Tips and Tricks (2020)

#71

Post by metafunctor » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 12:08 PM UTC

bouncycastle wrote: post #69

alessioalex wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're being ironic, right?

Nope, sarcastic. If JavaScript devs don't know if a function is async or sync it just gives more evidence that JS is a monkey-language. LOL!

Not a "JavaScript dev", but I think JS is a fine language. Perhaps I'm biased, because I like Scheme. The browser environment is the shitshow.

A function can call a third party service, or some subsystem running on the same computer, whatever. Regardless of the programming language, that service may or may not do stuff asynchronously after your call. There's no way to tell. I regard the console.log to be a third party service. Who the heck knows what it does, except it has access to your memory!

Re: Advanced console.log Tips and Tricks (2020)

#72

Post by bouncycastle » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

metafunctor wrote: post #71

bouncycastle wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, sarcastic. If JavaScript devs don't know if a function is async or sync it just gives more evidence that JS is a monkey-language. LOL!

Not a "JavaScript dev", but I think JS is a fine language. Perhaps I'm biased, because I like Scheme. The browser environment is the shitshow. A function can call a third party service, or some subsystem running on the same computer, whatever. Regardless of the programming language, that service may or may not do stuff asynchronously after your call. There's no way to tell. I regard the console.log to be a third part…

I don't think you can compare JS to Scheme, I've heard of that meme though. Also, JS suffers from a lot of fragmentation in tooling and frameworks, so the problem is not just the language.

As for a third party service argument, you're just stretching the goal posts there to fit your argument.

Re: Advanced console.log Tips and Tricks (2020)

#73

Post by metafunctor » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 8:02 AM UTC

bouncycastle wrote: post #72

metafunctor wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a "JavaScript dev", but I think JS is a fine language. Perhaps I'm biased, because I like Scheme. The browser environment is the shitshow. A function can call a third party service, or some subsystem running on the same computer, whatever. Regardless of the programming language, that service may or may not do stuff asynchronously after your call. There's no way to tell. I regard the console.log to be a third part…

I don't think you can compare JS to Scheme, I've heard of that meme though. Also, JS suffers from a lot of fragmentation in tooling and frameworks, so the problem is not just the language. As for a third party service argument, you're just stretching the goal posts there to fit your argument.

It's not just a meme, JS was literally inspired by Scheme (garbage collection, lexical scoping, type system) and Java (some superficial syntax) and Self (object orientation).

I agree that the core language is not the worst problem with JS; that's what I was trying to say.

Regarding the other point about knowing whether something is async or not. Few languages will tell you if a function does side effects. They might spawn threads or processes, mutate the data you sent them, all after the call has returned. Languages where you can easily see that this will happen are few and far between, and they have strong static type systems.