Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kids need freedom, too

persuasion.community

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 391 posts

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#311

Post by stickfigure »

endymi0n wrote: post #111

I can‘t find the link anymore, but in the prologue of (I think) a German norm for building playgrounds it said something along these lines that resonated a lot with me: „Kids have the right to hurt themselves and test their boundaries in a safe and limited way“ That‘s just so important for kids I think. US playgrounds all look sad to no end compared to the 15 meter high rope pyramids you see here in a lot of schools.…

Not quite 15m, but tall rope pyramids exist in the US. Here's the first one I laid eyes on, in Ashland Oregon on a road trip a couple years ago:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e15h4rK2NPQvUzH37

Of course I had to climb it immediately. My son was only 2 at the time so he didn't make it far. He's old enough now that I really want to find another one.

I found a few similar items in other parts of Oregon, but I haven't found one in California yet.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#312

Post by matt_j »

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

This seems like an over-protective attitude to me.

I rode my bike around the (Australian, suburban) streets from age 5, rode to school for 12 odd years, caught the train to the city and skated all over it from about age 13. My parents made a point of letting us (me and siblings) 'rough and tumble' as we grew up.

We had a lot of scrapes, don't get me wrong, but you learn a lot as a kid if you can fall over a few times. Kids are good at taking care of themselves, and each other, if you let them. Within reason, of course, but I see a lot of coddling these days and a lot of soft kids that have never been beyond the padded playground walls.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#313

Post by Loic »

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

> the Netherlands, parts of Denmark, or perhaps Japan (more for transit than cycling).

From my small experience living in France, Germany, Denmark and spending quite some times in other old[0] EU countries, you can do it everywhere there. From Portugal up to Finland and everything in-between. This is the normal way here.

[0]: Not to be taken negatively, just that I did not had the opportunity to visit/stay in the EU countries from the former East block.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#314

Post by ornornor »

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

In Switzerland it’s mandatory to let your kids go to and from school on their own from age 7 (I think, +/- 1 year)

The alternative is called “elterntaxi” (meaning parent taxi) and is very much frowned upon.

So, every school morning, lunch, and afternoon, you have bunches of little kids walking on their own between their schools and their homes, wearing a special reflective jacket.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#315

Post by ornornor »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #224
mips_avatar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think each near collision with a car radicalizes cyclists a bit. While cycling you build up experiences where cars prioritize speed over your safety. Most “annoying cyclists” I’ve met I feel like are arguing for the right things but they have a lot of bitterness.

There are plenty of stupid cyclists who don’t prioritize their own safety. One of my pet peeves is to have bikes on the road in the dark without lights. Most of these people are adults and they should know that a car driver can’t see them.

Yeah cycling without lights always amazed me.

At the same time, idiotic cyclists are only risking their own lives and that’s it. Idiotic drivers are risking other people’s lives but not their own.

When there is a crash between and a car and a bike that involves a fatality, 100% of the time that fatality is the cyclist and not the driver.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#316

Post by droopyEyelids »

LatteLazy wrote: post #162
jlos wrote: post #6

I think the problem "de-risking" childhood is only an instance of the bigger problem of what Roger Scruton calls "Risk De-aggregation". Risk Deaggregation is taking a single point of risk (and its associated metric), and optimizing to reduce that risk as if it exists in isolation from other risks. I.e. Risk occurs in aggregate, not as individual threats. Risk deaggregation happens everywhere from Climate Change polic…

Just so I'm clear, risk de-aggregation is when I worry and optimise about the risks of drink driving, and end up killing myself by [drunk walking in front of a bus]/[accepting a lift from a serial killer]/[Cancer I got in the smokey bar I was really careful not to drive home from]

maybe you worry about drunk driving, so you never leave your house again and die alone and penniless due to tremendous opportunity costs of avoiding all possibility of a drunk driver ever hitting you.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#317

Post by ajuc »

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

> But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that pretty much means the Netherlands, parts of Denmark, or perhaps Japan (more for transit than cycling).

Why these countries in particular? You can do this in pretty much any EU country and many non-EU European countries.

I walked back 4km from primary school every day. I could go by bus but then I'd had to wait for 30 minutes and everything beats that when you're 10.

And during vacations me and my cousins roamed the forest near my grandparents house whole day every day only returning for a dinner :)

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#318

Post by watwut »

ekianjo wrote: post #294
eru wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Little kids as young as 10 take the subway alone to/from school. That's not a little kid, that's just a kid. Americans have weird standards for kids' independence. Compare the Japanese show 'my first errand' where little kids go on their first errands: https://www.reddit.com/r/JapaneseGameShows/comments/1lvvgm/h...

You'd probably want to avoid citing Japanese TV shows as reference. They are all fake and completely scripted/heavily edited from start to finish.

In Germany school literally recomends for kids to go alone to school from first grade. First graders also went alone from school to afterschool activity.

7 years old navigating streets is not as much rarity as Americans think. And it used to be completely normal too.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#319

Post by watwut »

ornornor wrote: post #314
CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

In Switzerland it’s mandatory to let your kids go to and from school on their own from age 7 (I think, +/- 1 year) The alternative is called “elterntaxi” (meaning parent taxi) and is very much frowned upon. So, every school morning, lunch, and afternoon, you have bunches of little kids walking on their own between their schools and their homes, wearing a special reflective jacket.

Switzerland managed to figure out preschool/kindergarten system that literally puts even more limitations on mom then having kids at home.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#320

Post by AstralStorm »

refurb wrote: post #284
panopticon wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then there's the press which lives by sensationalizing every bad thing that happens, leading us to grossly exaggerate risk levels in our society. Humans are really bad at assessing risk. Parents are more likely to be afraid of a stranger kidnapping their child when their child is far more likely to die on the car ride to school. Which is sad when you think about how suburbs are designed to make people feel safe eve…

Yup. I lived in Asia for a while and toddlers ride on scooters without helmets. Shocking! Then I remember back not long ago when seat belt laws came into effect in the US. Before then? Meh. And car seats for 6 year olds?

The difference here is that the these scooters either have a separate lane or are driving on pavement.

There are no such provisions in most of the US.

Post reply on HN