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Kids need freedom, too

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Re: Kids need freedom, too

#161

Post by bell-cot »

semitones wrote: post #64
caturopath wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's striking to me that the extreme end of 'freedom' here is letting a 9 year old ride a train alone. I must be getting old. I realize it's relevant because Skenazy wrote and talked about doing so, but it's also just so non-extreme.

I agree, it doesn't seem that extreme to me. Maybe something like letting your 9 year old get on a bus to another state, without a phone, and telling them "come back when you're done having fun!" would be extreme.

My grandfather did this with my father - though with specific marching orders. Regularly, maybe starting when dad was 7. It was the 1920's (s/bus/train/g). So far as I can tell from old family stories, it was considered pretty normal for an extended family with farms that were hundreds of miles apart. When school was out, the "free" young farm labor could be sent to where there was work that needed doing.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#162

Post by LatteLazy »

jlos wrote: post #6

I think the problem "de-risking" childhood is only an instance of the bigger problem of what Roger Scruton calls "Risk De-aggregation". Risk Deaggregation is taking a single point of risk (and its associated metric), and optimizing to reduce that risk as if it exists in isolation from other risks. I.e. Risk occurs in aggregate, not as individual threats. Risk deaggregation happens everywhere from Climate Change polic…

Just so I'm clear, risk de-aggregation is when I worry and optimise about the risks of drink driving, and end up killing myself by [drunk walking in front of a bus]/[accepting a lift from a serial killer]/[Cancer I got in the smokey bar I was really careful not to drive home from]

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#163

Post by [deleted] »

hallarempt wrote: post #101
nikolay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents today are overprotective (this includes me!) and don't realize that it actually damages their kids. I was 5-years-old when my parents would just drop me off to the kindergarten and then I was on my own pretty much the whole day after kindergarten finishes in the afternoon. I would go to different classes kilometers away, crossing roads, etc. and it was common practice. I don't think kids get injured less toda…

I was a four-year old forty-five years ago. I was walking to my pre-school and back, a couple of blocks and a pretty big and busy street across daily. The cars weren't a problem. Getting mobbed by primary school kids on my way back and getting beaten up was a problem. A bigger problem was when I told my parents the reason I was getting home later and later was because of the detours I was taking to avoid getting beat…

[deleted]

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#165

Post by ip26 »

betwixthewires wrote: post #125

I thought this article would be about other things judging from the title, but these are good points. I'm not that old, and I remember "be home before dark" when I was in the single digits. I was going outside, by myself, since about the age of 5. As soon as I could ride a bike that was it. Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life. There was a phase in my childhood where…

Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life

This is not really the relationship I aspire to have with my children.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#166

Post by lotsofpulp »

Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #128
lotsofpulp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My take is myopia can be effectively treated with an inexpensive and non-invasive device Like what? >while LASIK comes with significant risk of causing different kinds of visual impairments that cannot be treated The numbers behind LASIK (and PRK) are pretty solid such that one can make an objective claim that it is a low risk endeavor unless you have some specific conditions. Here is one study: https://www.ncbi.nl…

Glasses or contact lenses Low risk -> that paper's definition of "safety" is whether people had good eyesight. It doesn't take into account halos or dry eyes, as far as I can tell.

> Low risk -> that paper's definition of "safety" is whether people had good eyesight. It doesn't take into account halos or dry eyes, as far as I can tell.

Yes, it was a quick search on my phone. I just remember doing a ton of research for it before I got mine done years ago. I know 6 others who got it done too around when I did, and everyone claims it was well worth it.

I just figured it has been around so long and performed so much, that there would be a lot of people claiming issues and it would show up by now.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#167

Post by bsf_ »

nomel wrote: post #145
betwixthewires wrote: post #125

I thought this article would be about other things judging from the title, but these are good points. I'm not that old, and I remember "be home before dark" when I was in the single digits. I was going outside, by myself, since about the age of 5. As soon as I could ride a bike that was it. Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life. There was a phase in my childhood where…

> Kids don't go outside because there's no kids outside. I don't think it's that simple. If you let your kids outside, away from your supervision, there's a very real (absolutely certain, where I live) risk of the police getting involved.

I can confirm this - last year I had to deal with Redwood City PD because my 11 year old daughter was playing after school on the playground (which is, amazingly, not allowed in CA?!). I stood my ground, but the incident involved the police department and meetings with the principal before it was resolved. California is doing a good job of driving the liberal right out of me.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#168

Post by lanewinfield »

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

I grew up in Milwaukee, WI and had this exact experience from an early age through 15 when I got my driver's license. A lot of biking between friends' houses and school.

Not to say that bike lanes and bike protection couldn't be better, because it absolutely could be.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#169

Post by burlesona »

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

I agree wholeheartedly. My life dream is to build a car-free city in the US so I can live there. When I was young and even more naive I hoped I could do this before having kids, so they could grow up with that freedom. Now I’m hoping maybe I can do this by the time I have grandchildren. We’ll see.

It would require a lot of capital in the form of patient equity to pull off.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#170

Post by ip26 »

endymi0n wrote: post #111

I can‘t find the link anymore, but in the prologue of (I think) a German norm for building playgrounds it said something along these lines that resonated a lot with me: „Kids have the right to hurt themselves and test their boundaries in a safe and limited way“ That‘s just so important for kids I think. US playgrounds all look sad to no end compared to the 15 meter high rope pyramids you see here in a lot of schools.…

Man, I thought you were talking about a 4 story rope climb at first.
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