Earlier quoted context omitted.
You said it happened twice. I haven't yet had to face this level of intrusiveness, but I fear that it's coming for all of us. May I ask what companies these were? If you don't want to name the exact companies, could you say the general purpose (opening a bank account, buying or selling real estate, incorporating a business, etc.)? Also, which country (I'm assuming the U.S.)?
Not the OP but I had to do this when opening a bank account in Germany.
Stripe Identity
551–557 of 557 posts
Re: Stripe Identity
#552Earlier quoted context omitted.
We already have a society that identifies people when doing business. The burden of proof is on an anonymity advocate to demonstrate why that is harmful and should be changed. I may mot have convinced you that having strong identity enables strong security and reduces spam (that is my argument). But it’s also not my problem if you aren’t aware of the nuances surrounding how security, privacy and anonymity work. You h…
> We already have a society that identifies people when doing business. This is false. There are many cases in real life when this is not the case as explained in the very post you just responded to. > The burden of proof is on an anonymity advocate to demonstrate why that is harmful and should be changed. You are making certain claims and then saying it's up to others to disprove you? If that's your attitude why are…
My point is that generally (not in all known cases) we are okay, in meatspace, (and quite familiar) with (and even require at times) exchanges that identify us whether it's putting our name on a coffee order, using a credit card to pay, signing a waiver, buying alcohol, visiting the hospital, opening a bank account, sending children to school, filing taxes, driving a car, etc. So to take the stance that anonymity is absolutely better to the point where it should be considered a fundamental human right and we should be worried about some company providing an identity verification api to online services because the whole shroud of pseudo anonymity of the internet is going to fall to pieces does require some supporting material, in the least. Otherwise it's just FUD.
> You clearly think you know much more than everyone here already anyway.
If I seem quip it's because I responded to a question asking if this API would mean we see more identity requirements because it possibly lowers the barrier to adding one with an affirmative "I hope so" and the tone of the responses has been "dude what a terrible thing to say this is hackernews doncha know anonymity is chic" followed by anectdotes about how sometimes you use an identity when doing business and sometimes you don't (so see! anonymity works). That's not a discussion it's just virtue signaling.. and it is certainly the responsibility of the virtuous (in this case those who are supporting the stance that my statement is terrible because anonymity is righteous) to back up their conviction (otherwise it is, simply, a virtue and nothing more). I've presented an argument that we needn't worry because meatspace society has figured out a good balance of security, privacy, and the occasional but rare anonymity, and it is perfectly functional so I don't think there's a qualified threat to the internet. I've described how strong identity backed security and accompanying privacy are not the same as anonymity and suggested that many people are conflating the two. And I've laid out rationale explaining that strong identity is better for security (this is not simply a "claim" if you know the first thing about security) and how if we want to see real privacy on the internet, not just the fake privacy that you get by being pseudonymous, then we need to fundamentally understand and legislate and engineer policies and systems that support such.
So far nobody has presented an argument as to why anonymity is, specifically, better than strong identity with privacy rules beyond "well sometimes you don't need strong identity for things to work so it should be the default" which is talking past me because I never made a claim to the contrary. I've backed up my assertions with the as far as I know factual evidence that identity both enables better security and deters spam (which are problems that are worse on the internet relative to meatspace). I don't know what else you want. I'm sorry my responses are laborious.
Re: Stripe Identity
#553Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The internet would be a better place if there were more identity requirements SO LONG AS companies are not legally allowed to sell or transmit that information to advertisers or other third parties without explicit opt-in consent ideally on a per-use basis. Or simply at all This is a pipe dream. The online world spans the globe and we can only enforce the law in our own respective countries. And even if all countri…
A fully anonymous society is also a pipe dream. It doesn't work. You already provide your name and phone number and email to Twitter. You already identify yourself. We're talking about making that exchange more reliable and more secure...
Re: Stripe Identity
#554Considering that Stripe was originally known for letting websites accept credit card payments without seeing your credit card number, one might assume that Stripe Identity only allows websites to see the verification result, and not your selfies and scans of your identity documents. That would be an incorrect assumption. Per https://support.stripe.com/questions/managing-your-id-verifi... customers of Stripe Identity…
Re: Stripe Identity
#555Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would say that I am a bit shocked at the lack of regulation regarding access to people’s identity documents as compared to credit cards. To some degree it's because there isn't much point. You can call up my home state today, pinky promise that you're me, hand over $20, and they'll ship you my birth certificate or other important documents. We don't have private keys or other kinds of unique identifiers assigned…
It's supposed to work in quite a few countries, and not all make it so easy. Given the requirement in my country for ID when obtaining any other ID, I'm actually puzzled about what happens if you lose everything. https://stripe.com/docs/identity/verification-checks
Re: Stripe Identity
#556Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fix is for the government to make it a service. Right now, the government is punting responsibility to private actors who do not have the legal tools to operate an identity service. The government already operates an identity service via passports. The only reason they do not have an electronic identity service yet is because it is beneficial for them to be able to blame private actors when things go wrong.
But at a fundamental level, why do Discord and Clubhouse need to verify my identity? I don't think the question GP is asking is whether or not Stripe is a good way to confirm someone's real-life identity, or whether it would be better for the government to do it. I think what they're asking why we're doing identity verification for chat applications. Is this a good direction overall for the Internet to be moving in?…
Maybe not those two, but your bank does, your insurance company does, your employer does, your business partner does.
There's a lot of places where there's trust placed in a specific citizen and their identity. The "root of trust" of being a citizen is the government, it'd be nothing new really to provide that digitally.
The proof of it being doable are the governments providing electronic ID's for decade or two now. Solving those really hairy problems hundreds of millions of Americans are struggling or encumbered by daily.
Re: Stripe Identity
#557Earlier quoted context omitted.
A bunch of verification systems use a video feed instead of a static photo. This helps a lot to weed out photoshops, and you can also check for reflections (the ones I had to go through ask you to move your camera under different angles) While there is no infallible system, I think we currently have decently efficient solution (with sizable trade-offs of course, as you rely on the user having a smartphone that is sup…
> A bunch of verification systems use a video feed instead of a static photo. This helps a lot to weed out photoshops, and you can also check for reflections (the ones I had to go through ask you to move your camera under different angles) Doesn’t help. You can photoshop and then print. You can use a card printer if needed to make it look like a real ID card. To make a proper assessment you need to hold the document,…
You can sure still fake it somehow, but it goes beyond just printing a card.