Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket • Hacker News Board

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#21

Post by fnl » Mon, Jul 11, 2011, 11:13 PM UTC

pettazz wrote: post #18

bonch wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing becoming a citizen in a foreign country to signing up with a social network? There are a hell of a lot more barriers to becoming a foreign citizen, such as physical location, than signing up for a social network and giving it all your personal data. Google is a much bigger data-collecting, privacy-breaching behemoth than Facebook, so signing up with them should be an action that warrants thought.

It was a metaphor. I wasn't exactly saying that it was exactly the same. And yeah, it does warrant thought, but the whole point of this article is that when one site owns all your web apps, if you piss them off, you lose access to all of those at once. I'm wondering why people don't just not dick around. I've never gotten kicked/banned from anything by accident. Just don't post a picture of your ass on G+ and your do…

Maybe this is true for US cit's. But if you think a bit more out of the box than just "States", the author has quite a point. Just look at what some gov'ts in less well of countries with regard to FoS now are doing in terms of monitoring People by "spying on" social networks. I think if you take the WWW (where world != only US), the issues the author raises do matter, and quite a lot. It might be much easier to reach a "state" where you get locked out of all your "eggs".

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#22

Post by timr » Mon, Jul 11, 2011, 11:15 PM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #16

FTA: You’re taking your chips from Facebook and investing them in Google+. This might be a satisfactory solution in the short term, but do you have any rational reason to believe that it’s better in the long term? The author seems to be under the mistaken impression that people are moving to G+ because they trust Google more than Facebook. I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason I'm switching is that Faceb…

"Circles is such an obvious improvement that it boggles my mind that Facebook hasn't managed to deploy something like it."

They have. All of the same functionality exists within "lists" and "groups". The only difference is that Facebook hasn't wrapped those features into a unified UI. If circles catches on, I expect Facebook to copy it in about half a heartbeat.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#23

Post by Game_Ender » Mon, Jul 11, 2011, 11:27 PM UTC

mahyarm wrote: post #10

tytso wrote: post #5

This is of course not limited to Google. Consider the case of someone who returned a television on the recommendation of the Amazon help desk, but that triggered their customer-has-returned-too-many-items --- which then disabled his access to his ebooks purchased through Amazon books.[1] And if that person was an entrepreneur using S3/EC2 for his idea for a new company, he could lose access to his Amazon virtual mach…

Did that ever get resolved? That's pretty scary, makes me want to not use amazon anymore for ebooks and to get something other than a kindle for my next e-reader.

Last I checked it is possible to remove all the DRM from the Kindle e-books you buy and back them up in a portable format. It takes quite a few steps (utilizing a PID generator and MobiDeDRM), but I am sure you can automate the process.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#24

Post by jsavimbi » Mon, Jul 11, 2011, 11:38 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #15

icarus_drowning wrote: post #4

I find it interesting that the article begins by talking about how great it is that Google+ puts pressure on facebook and then immediately tries to paint the service as a bad thing. Intrinsic to the claim that G+ is a long-awaited challenge to the "monopolistic" facebook is the obvious fact that Google is one of the few entities with the power to challenge the facebook behemoth. So why then does the author then compl…

There are a lot of 'anti' Google+ articles coming out at the moment. Google+ is a trending topic, positive Google+ coverage is common, so negative Google+ coverage stands out. Now as to whether or not the author of the cited article makes their case or not, I'm with other folks who agree that if you're using gmail/docs/picassa/talk then you're probably already have this risk and Google+ neither adds or decreases that…

And it's not just the web properties. Google has a functional business ecosystem addressing not only desktop and mobile software platforms, but also the hardware partners to extend it worldwide. For better or for worse, Google has positioned itself as the current internet software infrastructure provider. Nobody else, neither Apple nor Microsoft is in a position to compete with them with such an extensive offering and grab as large as a market share.

Facebook has a website with a serious credibility problem among mature users and growing fatigue amongst their core user base. A year from now you will not be taken seriously if you champion Facebook over Google+. And I say that as someone who has consistently derided their social offerings, although I will admit that Orkut was good for awhile.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#25

Post by Kadrith » Tue, Jul 12, 2011, 12:37 AM UTC

Daniel14 wrote: post #19

pak wrote: post #14

FUD at its best. Not only is the Facebook TOS just as convoluted and subject to arbitrary BS as Google's but for every story about some user having his crap deleted on a Google property, there's 10 people complaining that Facebook did the same to them. Things regarding nudity, etc. -- does he not realize Facebook has the same rules? You can't post a profile pic of your buttocks on Facebook. Dirty content or under-age…

I agree with most of your points - However, I think the author's main complaint was that if you do anything somehow objectionable on any Google service, then all of them get blocked. I don't see why that's the case, but as long as it continues, his point is valid - Facebook won't also ban your email for posting nudity. They can only smash one egg, not your entire internet basket.

Unless you do most of your communicating with family through Facebook, or use Facebook Connect to authenticate with external sites; then you're just as screwed if they ban you.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#26

Post by Stormbringer » Tue, Jul 12, 2011, 1:28 AM UTC

The thing I notice about Google+ is that the only thing people use it for is talking about Google+.

This strikes me as a bad thing. Didn't Orkut and Wave and other 'failed' similar services from other companies have the same problem? Limited appeal? Too recursively tied up in their own cleverness?

The thing people hate about Facebook is the trivial uses the muggles put it to. But there are not 500 million techos in the world.

Unless and until people start talking about mundane non-techo stuff, I won't consider Google+ to have succeeded.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#27

Post by donaq » Tue, Jul 12, 2011, 1:39 AM UTC

Stormbringer wrote: post #26

The thing I notice about Google+ is that the only thing people use it for is talking about Google+. This strikes me as a bad thing. Didn't Orkut and Wave and other 'failed' similar services from other companies have the same problem? Limited appeal? Too recursively tied up in their own cleverness? The thing people hate about Facebook is the trivial uses the muggles put it to. But there are not 500 million techos in t…

I already use it for sharing pictures with my friends and more or less as a replacement for Twitter. Of course, I'm not a very typical example, since my Twitter is mostly tech news links anyway.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#28

Post by leviathant » Tue, Jul 12, 2011, 1:48 AM UTC

Stormbringer wrote: post #26

The thing I notice about Google+ is that the only thing people use it for is talking about Google+. This strikes me as a bad thing. Didn't Orkut and Wave and other 'failed' similar services from other companies have the same problem? Limited appeal? Too recursively tied up in their own cleverness? The thing people hate about Facebook is the trivial uses the muggles put it to. But there are not 500 million techos in t…

That may say more about your online friends than it says about Google+. I have friends on Facebook talking about Google+, and occasionally see a mention of it on Twitter, but everyone in my G+ "Friends" circle are using it as they had been using Facebook. At least two have closed down their Facebook account and migrated completely, and while they're more techie than Joe-YouTube-Commenter, one works at a bank and the other in carving granite, so, not -that- kind of techie.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#29

Post by leviathant » Tue, Jul 12, 2011, 1:50 AM UTC

pwhermanson wrote: post #3

This article has several scary insights. When Google has too many eggs, they start to work against each other for the user. And talking about monopolies: "If you think that Facebook has a monopoly in the social scene, just imagine for a second what your life on the web would be like if you switched to Google+" Sebastian didn't even mention Google Fiber! Eventually, Google might even be your internet service provider!…

Self-policing on the internet by and large rarely works out well. Before long, most of the interesting people are driven out by the assholes, and the only other people left hanging around the assholes are the morons and bottom-of-the-barrel trolls.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#30

Post by vannevar » Tue, Jul 12, 2011, 4:15 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #22

vannevar wrote: post #16

FTA: You’re taking your chips from Facebook and investing them in Google+. This might be a satisfactory solution in the short term, but do you have any rational reason to believe that it’s better in the long term? The author seems to be under the mistaken impression that people are moving to G+ because they trust Google more than Facebook. I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason I'm switching is that Faceb…

"Circles is such an obvious improvement that it boggles my mind that Facebook hasn't managed to deploy something like it." They have. All of the same functionality exists within "lists" and "groups". The only difference is that Facebook hasn't wrapped those features into a unified UI. If circles catches on, I expect Facebook to copy it in about half a heartbeat.

Groups are a different feature entirely. And I don't see an option to limit my posts to a list, which is the chief benefit of creating a circle. Presumably Facebook could implement this functionality, but they have not. Which is my point.