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Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

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Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#361

Post by PragmaticPulp »

lostmyoldone wrote: post #345
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend discarding any anecdotes from people who recently started taking stimulants like Adderall, Vyvanse, or Ritalin. The parent comment is correct in that early stimulant usage is associated with euphoria and motivation that do not last. If someone describes Adderall like the magic drug that Bradley Cooper takes in the movie Limitless, they probably haven't been taking it very long. Tolerance quickly builds to…

A typical characteristic of people with ADHD is that typical doses of - say Ritalin - creates no euphoric effect at all. Every adult I met that is "on" stimulants has echoed the sentiment that they don't understand why on earth anyone would take them recreationally. Ergo, they don't feel euphoria, because then it would certainly be obvious why. If you get euphoria from those doses, well then what you suffer from is p…

People who take stimulants as prescribed for many years don’t understand the euphoric effects because they built a tolerance long ago. Their experience cannot be compared to someone just starting the medication.

The idea that ADHD medications do not cause euphoria in ADHD patients is a myth. It’s one of the reasons some practitioners are moving to titration schedules that start with low doses and move up over time.

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#362

Post by corobo »

mial wrote: post #7
corobo wrote: post #2

I've been on medication for about a week now and I've not thought about offing myself once since starting. That seems dramatic but honestly that used to be the default go-to answer for any problem that couldn't be resolved within a day or so. Seems a bit excessive of a response to problems now.. It really looks like my depression might be rooted in undiagnosed ADHD. I can also if not properly focus on tasks at least…

Medication helped a lot in the beginning, but what really helped in the long term was talk therapy, and setting up helpful systems and habits such as exercising, diet, journalling. But this would not have been possible without taking Ritalin in the first place. I'm mostly off-meds now.

I'll be starting the talk therapy side of things soon I believe! Bit of a lag on that due to covid etc.

I've already had some systems in place (if it's not in Todoist it's not getting done) but I was falling behind even my norm. If I can get to a point where I can function well enough without meds that will be brilliant, here's to hoping :)

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#363

Post by PragmaticPulp »

username90 wrote: post #320
thatcat wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can comment anytime, but people who have been using it less than a decade won't be able to comment on the medications post-tolerence decrease in effectiveness and side effects.

If it takes a decade to build up tolerance and a month to completely get rid of it then sustainability seems clear, no? The problem isn't physical dependence but mental dependence, ADHD forces you to become super strict with yourself to get anything done at all, medication makes you lazy since you just pop a pill and get things done, if you stop trying after getting the pills you will start having problems again just…

Tolerance to the euphoric and motivating effects builds much faster than a decade. More like a few weeks.

It’s a common problem with new ADHD patients. They mistake the euphoria and motivation for the therapeutic effect, then complain that it isn’t “working” any more and ask for progressively higher doses. Some eventually start doctor shopping to find someone who will prescribe higher doses when their provider refuses.

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#364

Post by corobo »

darkhorse13 wrote: post #116
matlin wrote: post #107

Anyone reading this should be extremely skeptical of internet strangers recommending drugs that gave them "superpowers", changed their life, etc. Taking these drugs will make anyone feel more focused, motivated, etc because these drugs are strong stimulants that cause euphoria, focus, and bursts of energy. Anecdotally, I've seen a huge uptick in posts of the format "how an ADHD diagnosis changed my life" on Reddit, T…

Thank you for posting this. And since these are all basically just anecdotes, I would also like to add mine. I got hooked on anxiety pills after a diagnosis (not the same thing as ADHD, but still), and the withdrawals were genuinely the worst things I've ever faced. Like I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. With drugs, especially habit forming ones backed by Big Pharma, you should always be on the side of cautio…

> Moreover, some of the comments are literally about starting drugs a week or a month ago

Yes and note that you know that. We're aware that long term things might change, so we point out that we're only a week in. Use your judgement from there, add as many pinches of salt as you like.

Additionally people new to a thing are WAY more likely to talk about it than others, because it is new and novel and interesting to discuss. See also: vegan, keto, crossfit, peloton, etc. Old timers tend to jump in when there's misinformation, but aside from that they stick to the sides.

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#365

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #361
lostmyoldone wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A typical characteristic of people with ADHD is that typical doses of - say Ritalin - creates no euphoric effect at all. Every adult I met that is "on" stimulants has echoed the sentiment that they don't understand why on earth anyone would take them recreationally. Ergo, they don't feel euphoria, because then it would certainly be obvious why. If you get euphoria from those doses, well then what you suffer from is p…

People who take stimulants as prescribed for many years don’t understand the euphoric effects because they built a tolerance long ago. Their experience cannot be compared to someone just starting the medication. The idea that ADHD medications do not cause euphoria in ADHD patients is a myth. It’s one of the reasons some practitioners are moving to titration schedules that start with low doses and move up over time.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#366

Post by thatcat »

username90 wrote: post #320
thatcat wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can comment anytime, but people who have been using it less than a decade won't be able to comment on the medications post-tolerence decrease in effectiveness and side effects.

If it takes a decade to build up tolerance and a month to completely get rid of it then sustainability seems clear, no? The problem isn't physical dependence but mental dependence, ADHD forces you to become super strict with yourself to get anything done at all, medication makes you lazy since you just pop a pill and get things done, if you stop trying after getting the pills you will start having problems again just…

On the decade time scale the negative effects I've heard reported are mostly clustered in the amphetamine psychosis category

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#367

Post by kls »

kar5pt wrote: post #193
RHSman2 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, if you have ADHD the medicine shouldn’t make you ‘high’. If you don’t it will have that effect. This was told to me by a specialist (I am dubious though)

This is false. I was diagnosed ADHD by a psychologist twice (this is the full ADHD test where they put you through IQ and other cognitive testing). My ADHD was severe enough that I qualified for accommodations on the SATs. I was still able to get high on Vyvanse/Adderall often enough to get addicted to it. Drug companies lie to make these medications seem safer than they are.

I just don't see how people become physically addicted to these drugs. I am on Desoxyn have been for years and at a pretty high dose for a clinical dose. 35mg twice a day. I have went weeks without taking my medication with no ill effect. Not a single withdraw, the only thing that happens is the foggy head comes back and I cannot seem to put one foot in front of the other to get things completed. there is only one company that makes Desoxyn and it always has to be ordered, so I have times that my pharmacy does not have it and no pharmacy stocks it by default because it is pharmaceutical Methamphetamine. I do not take anywhere near a recreational dose, but I cannot for the life of me, understand how people on prescriptions for these class of drugs get junkie level addicted. I don't have any literature to back it up, but I would assume by the street drugs, if any of these meds would be the most addictive, it would be the one whos active ingredient is methamphetamine. I just go oh well it's going to suck for a week and not much will get done. Recreational meth users are generally taking anywhere from 100-200mg at recreational doses. For me to take that my months prescription would be used up in about 8 doses. certainly not enough time to develop dependency. So where are these people getting such high doses that they can continually take, to develop physical addition.

I also have no idea why anyone would want to abuse something like Adderall. The levoamphetamine targets the bodies nervous system rather than the brain. On very low therapeutic doses it cause all kinds of peripheral physicals problems for me.

It is also good to keep in mind ADD/ADHD meds have one of the highest success rates in the pharmacological field of psychiatrics care. It's one of psychiatrics success stories and there is a mountain of evidence that supports it. It is sad that it is still stigmatized as just wanting to get high. I avoided treatment for years due to that. Not accepting the proven track record of stimulant based treatment for ADD/ADHD is doing a lot of harm to a lot of people. Is it over diagnosed sure, but that does not negate that it does work for people who suffer focus disorders.

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#368

Post by kls »

lowdest wrote: post #162
anonymouse008 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever experiment with Adderall, Vyvanse or Ritalin? How did you end up with Strattera? I’m trying to triangulate a course for myself and still can’t pull the trigger on any of these for fear of side-effects or dependence.

I've been on and off Vyvanse and Ritalin for a decade. Work with your doctor on side effects, I found Concerta to have the least side effects for me (long-lasting, tapers slowly at end of day, and fewer anxious feelings for me than Vyvanse.) I've also taken breaks from the medication for a year or more. It takes somewhere between 3 days and 3 weeks to feel like I'm not missing something when I stop the medication, bu…

I had horrible physicals side effects with Adderall, I was switch to Desoxyn and I get no physical side effects from it. I just get clear headed with no speedy feel in the body or cramps. Adderall always made me clear headed, but also jittery in the body and gave me the worst cramps but the biggest one that I was not going to put up with is Adderall killed the marital bed performance, but funny enough not the desire, that was a deal breaker for me.

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#369

Post by kls »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #213
jnovek wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stimulants do have an anti-depressant quality in a similar sense to SNRIs. They stimulate release of extracellular neural serotonin and norepinephrine (SNRIs block reuptake of serotonin and norepinephrine. Before the accidental discovery of the first front-line antidepressants in the 50s, they were prescribed for depression. However, for the reasons you mentioned, they aren’t very good antidepressants. It’s easy to m…

Stimulants including Adderall have been formally trialed for depression treatment. They don't work. Don't confuse the molecular mechanism of a drug for its eventual outcome. There is far more to a medication than binding affinities.

With the exception of MDMA, MDMA has show to have effective outcomes on depression and PTSD in short term studies. They problem is they have to be interleaved with SSRI's or the down state is far worse. That has been the issue with MDMA, it drops a depressed person lower than they where on the down ramp. Therefore there are concerns that it could place someone who was not suicidal in that low of a state. Studies have shown regulating this with SSRI's can mitigate the down state.

Re: Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?

#370

Post by kls »

LurkersWillLurk wrote: post #247
stevewodil wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you are replying to, but generally speaking I look at getting a diagnosis (for most mental health problems) like so: Do these symptoms cause me struggle with my everyday life? Are things that normal people do all the time oddly difficult for me to complete? If so, go get a diagnosis. Everyone struggles with procrastination to an extent, but if you try to sit down and try to start the work and just CANN…

> if you try to sit down and try to start the work and just CANNOT emotionally bring yourself to do the work or get your brain to engage, then it's probably something more than just normal procrastination I've had so many problems with this in high school and college, it's unreal. I've only started to fully comprehend my problems with anxiety this past semester but reading all of this makes me wonder if there's somet…

Would second this, if the though of doing the dishes is equivalent to someone shooting your dog emotionally then you have an issue. It just seems like life cannot go on to get yourself to drag yourself to the sink and start washing them. Now I do them almost every time I take a break.
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