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GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

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Re: GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

#91

Post by bennyp101 »

the_biot wrote: post #69

Nushell missed the one feature that every Unix shell has: if it doesn't recognize the first word as a built-in command, look it up and run it as an executable. It's crucial, and nushell is missing out on an ecosystem of random shell commands to complement it as a result. This, of course, is what makes the Unix shell so great: the many little programs able to work together via pipelines. This makes nushell an interpre…

Its the 2nd paragraph

"If a command is unknown, the command will shell-out and execute it (using cmd on Windows or bash on Linux and macOS), correctly passing through stdin, stdout, and stderr, so things like your daily git workflows and even vim will work just fine."

Re: GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

#92

Post by pdpi »

hnlmorg wrote: post #68
kamray23 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you not? No memory leaks, no security issues stemming from such. No random crashes from memory misuse, no issues debugging the issues that exist. It's like a higher level language but lower. You get to do things your way, except when your way is fundamentally unsafe. The code is then easier to debug as it actually describes what's happening and issues are mostly algorithmic, while the application gets a massiv…

Rust isn't the only language that offers that. In fact most languages offer that. Even Pascal is safer than C. Or if we're really concerned about security then we should be advocating that out shells are written in Ada. But clearly there's more to it than that.... It's also worth remembering that the biggest causes of RCE in shells haven't been buffer overflows. It's been fundamental design problems from the outset (…

Maybe we could be writing things in ADA. I don’t know, it’s a language that’s been on my radar for several years but I haven’t actually dug into it yet.

That said, we need something to replace C — and Rust seems to be picking up momentum. Rust seems good enough a replacement to me, and that’s enough for me to cheer it on.

I do agree that “written in rust” isn’t as big a guarantee of quality as people here assume though.

Re: GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

#93

Post by j1elo »

chx wrote: post #65
vbsteven wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Cargo doubling as both build tool and package manager is a big factor here. The combination of Cargo + crates.io makes it very easy to write some Rust code and make it available to anyone with Cargo on their system. Either by `cargo install nu` to build it from sources on crates.io or `cargo install` inside the git repo to build my own customized version. No more waiting for distro packagers to keep up. Putti…

This is insanity and hubris. "It's so easy!" yes if you have the language and tools de jour installed and up to date. I want none of that. It was node and npm. Then go. Now Rust and cargo. Oh, I forgot ruby. And all this needs to be up to date or things break. (And if you do update them then things you are actively using will break.) I don't need more tamagochis, in fact the less I have, the better. What happened to…

100% agree. I find it very funny, but in a sarcastic and totally wrong way, when a project's README has an Install section that reads:

  Run "cargo install myProject"
I know Rust, so Cargo is not alien to me. But come on, you know that your install instructions are a bit shitty.

Please, choose a target distro, then test your instructions in a clean Docker container. THEN you can sit down knowing you wrote proper guidance for users.

EDIT because this comment is being misunderstood: I meant that you should make sure your instructions work as-is from a clean installation of your intended distro(s), regardless of how you prefer to do so; using a Docker container is just my preferred method, but you can also do a clean VM or whatever else, as long as you don't assume anything beyond a default installed system.

Re: GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

#94

Post by oblio »

anticodon wrote: post #38
jupp0r wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

powershell for unix is ... powershell: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/instal...

PowerShell from Microsoft is looking too alien on Unix. Just looking at the syntax I already feel uncomfortable. It's hard for me to criticize it because I haven't used it, but it looks like it was designed by a committee and overdesigned. I.e. it wasn't created from the need, like someone at Microsoft wanted to automate his work and created PS to solve his problem. It looks like some boss decided: "They have shells,…

I'm sorry, are you a shell user? Since when ~, for example, is easy to type and - is hard to type? LOL.

First of all your backstory is wrong, it was a 1-person project. Then, about the features, all those long, explicit commands have short versions.

Secondly, I agree that Powershell feels a bit alien on Unix, which will probably be the main reason its adoption will never be amazing.

Re: GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

#97

Post by [deleted] »

jntrnr wrote: post #84
the_biot wrote: post #69

Nushell missed the one feature that every Unix shell has: if it doesn't recognize the first word as a built-in command, look it up and run it as an executable. It's crucial, and nushell is missing out on an ecosystem of random shell commands to complement it as a result. This, of course, is what makes the Unix shell so great: the many little programs able to work together via pipelines. This makes nushell an interpre…

This is how Nushell works. If the command isn't an internal command, it will run it from you path. Curious what you tried that didn't work.

[deleted]

Re: GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

#98

Post by CJefferson »

chx wrote: post #65
vbsteven wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Cargo doubling as both build tool and package manager is a big factor here. The combination of Cargo + crates.io makes it very easy to write some Rust code and make it available to anyone with Cargo on their system. Either by `cargo install nu` to build it from sources on crates.io or `cargo install` inside the git repo to build my own customized version. No more waiting for distro packagers to keep up. Putti…

This is insanity and hubris. "It's so easy!" yes if you have the language and tools de jour installed and up to date. I want none of that. It was node and npm. Then go. Now Rust and cargo. Oh, I forgot ruby. And all this needs to be up to date or things break. (And if you do update them then things you are actively using will break.) I don't need more tamagochis, in fact the less I have, the better. What happened to…

The problem with .deb and .rpm is your dependencies, some things aren't packaged, you end up having to build separate packages for each major Debian and redhat release to link against the correct dependency version.

I'd love that to all be "one-command automated", but I haven't seen such a thing, unlike cargo, which I do find I can be productive with after a one page tutorial.

Re: GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

#99

Post by vogon_laureate »

vbsteven wrote: post #20
firefly284 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everything written in rust nowadays? Apart from the safety it provides.

I think Cargo doubling as both build tool and package manager is a big factor here. The combination of Cargo + crates.io makes it very easy to write some Rust code and make it available to anyone with Cargo on their system. Either by `cargo install nu` to build it from sources on crates.io or `cargo install` inside the git repo to build my own customized version. No more waiting for distro packagers to keep up. Putti…

Thank you for listing these. I had a look at them and they are really useful utilities. Now the challenge is to try to change the muscle memory that relies on the traditional unix commands!

Re: GitHub – nushell/nushell: A new type of shell

#100

Post by rjzzleep »

kaba0 wrote: post #82
rjzzleep wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used it and I can relate to the comment. Maybe your assumptions are off in there, but I think the main point you were trying to make is that it's complicated. It's so complicated that you really need a repl to be able to work with it efficiently. It's a bit like how programming Java is simple if you do it in Idea or back then in eclipse, but in a pure editor it's impossible to remember all the boilerplate.

Can you write a bash one-liner that gets the free memory of your system? Is the awk blackmagic better than selecting an item of an object? Of course new things will be harder to write but it’s a people problem not something inherent with PS.

I find cut easier to use than remembering awk syntax. So I get where you're coming from, but it's just a tad disingenuous don't you think? Especially since `free` `man free` is definitely easier to remember than Get-Whateverfunctioncall is
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