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Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

bbc.com

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Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#371

Post by taylodl »

Many of my coworkers pine for a Mac because their Windows experience is so awful. They don't care about any of the features Apple touts. They just want the stability - updates don't happen unless you request for them to happen, your machine doesn't force you to re-boot when you need to get something done right now. There's a myriad of annoyances that add up to making Windows an infuriating platform to use when needing to get work done.

Maybe the next version of Windows (or whatever it's to be called) will see Microsoft exit out of the OS business. I've often thought Microsoft should play the script Apple played: use a Linux kernel, wrap the Windows APIs around that kernel, create a Windows desktop environment. Most of your existing apps from the past 30 years would still run and you no longer have to maintain a kernel and drivers. Heck, you might even offer a "bring your own kernel" offering where the user can pick which distro they want and run your Windows desktop environment when desired.

I'd love to see the numbers on the net profit Microsoft is making from Windows and how much pull-in business Windows is still generating for them.

Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#372

Post by worewood »

freeopinion wrote: post #334
PaulKeeble wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had used that telemetry to realise that maybe just maybe people tended to use the same mode and it might be an idea to store it and reapply it on launch then I could see a point to the telemetry. But they aren't even using it to solve the problems their users have, it is just data collection for collections sake if the applications aren't improving!

Do you suppose loyalty card telemetry is used to improve the customer's shopping experience? Or do you suspect it might possibly be used for other purposes?

At least loyalty cards give something in exchange, a discount, a free item etc.

Software telemetry only gives us headaches

Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#374

Post by amatecha »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #18

>> Windows 10 was released in July 2015 and dubbed "Windows as a service" Can we please have 7 back, with its complete lack of built in ads, dark patterns ramming the Microsoft browser down your throat, telemetry everywhere (the calculator, really?), changes for the sake of showing that some manager did something rather than functionality (Rename this PC -> Rename this PC (Advanced))? Windows 10 still regularly shows…

There was never any real reason to ever "upgrade" beyond Windows 7, except that MS stopped supporting it. It still works fine. I know numerous people who still run it as their daily driver, including playing all the latest games (there are very very few that actually _require_ Windows 10).

I also have to question whether these UX changes provide any benefit to users at all. They strike me as nothing but a cost to users in terms of familiarity and discoverability. Unless the new UI changes are somehow objectively better in any of those regards, it's a net negative change. I know some people will say, for example, "you can change the task bar back to where it was". However, apparently less than 5% of users ever change default settings, according to an unfortunately-anecdotal article[0], so a change like this presumably decides how ~95% of people will use the OS.

I can't wait to explain to my 83 yr old uncle (who doesn't understand the difference between a website and an application on the computer) why everything just randomly moved over and looks way different, after he has spent years just getting familiar with basic usage of the computer to begin with.

[0] https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/09/14/do-users-chan...

Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#375

Post by StandardFuture »

bserge wrote: post #276
leshow wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Not to start the old windows vs linux flamewar but if something in Windows doesn't work the way you want it you don't have many options. In Linux you can change absolutely everything... and people have been making it "actually work properly" for decades. This feels like just your personal experience about how some Linux distro didn't work out of the box the way you wanted.

Yeah it's a useless debate. If you're lucky to only need software that runs on Linux and you use desktop hardware, it likely works well. It certainly works great in a VM, unlike Windows.

> it's a useless debate

Not really. It's just too complicated of a "debate" (it's actually a non-debate) or discussion to dive into the differentiating factors that will assume different priorities for different people. Tradeoffs are everywhere and in everything and so is nuance.

Personally, I am growing tired of chasing Windows releases every few years so I will re-prioritize almost entirely around Linux's strengths.

Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#376

Post by jjeaff »

taylodl wrote: post #371

Many of my coworkers pine for a Mac because their Windows experience is so awful. They don't care about any of the features Apple touts. They just want the stability - updates don't happen unless you request for them to happen, your machine doesn't force you to re-boot when you need to get something done right now . There's a myriad of annoyances that add up to making Windows an infuriating platform to use when needi…

All of the things you mentioned are either already solved or have always been built in the Windows 10 pro.

I think the biggest mistake Microsoft made with windows 10 is offering different, cheaper versions. The cheaper versions have less features and more ads.

But if you are a developer, you should be using Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise. It doesn't make any sense to be using Home as the savings are very minimal.

Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#377

Post by amatecha »

eloff wrote: post #260
bsd44 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look into an alternative then. Linux is quite beginner friendly these days and with Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that's what's holding you back from switching. If not then MacOS is the way to go. If you really want to go "back" then you should have a look at ReactOS which is a sort of an open-source Windows clone. I can't comment on recent Windows-related event as XP was the…

One can complain about Windows, but at the end of the day I have way more issues with desktop Linux (which I use principally.) I find myself in an awkward situation where I don't like any of the three major desktop operating systems for different reasons. It's more a matter of picking the one that's less bad. Currently for me that's Linux for work, Windows for games, and Mac for a laptop. I need a new laptop next yea…

Check out FreeBSD or OpenBSD. Worth looking into, many ppl use these as their daily driver desktop OS.

Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#378

Post by prometheus76 »

oblio wrote: post #344
bsd44 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using various Linux and BSD flavours as my main desktop OS and also at work for over 15 years now and never had any major issue such as the one you describe. So now what are we going to do? How do we decide who is right and who is wrong? I don't understand these types of comments, if an alternative doesn't work for you then you keep using what you were in the first place. There's no problem here. What exact…

Do you carefully curate your hardware? Only purchase from a very limited selection and don't use advanced hardware features (biometric authentication, for example)? Those are loaded questions, I'm quite sure I know the answers (yes and yes).

It's on an older thinkpad. I can't remember the model. When linux blew up and I tried three different variants of linux and they all had different, annoying, time-consuming issues after about a week of use, I threw it in a drawer and got the ad blocker on my router working (which was the main thing I was trying to use linux for on my home network).

Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#379

Post by _-david-_ »

wetpaws wrote: post #311
artificialLimbs wrote: post #18

>> Windows 10 was released in July 2015 and dubbed "Windows as a service" Can we please have 7 back, with its complete lack of built in ads, dark patterns ramming the Microsoft browser down your throat, telemetry everywhere (the calculator, really?), changes for the sake of showing that some manager did something rather than functionality (Rename this PC -> Rename this PC (Advanced))? Windows 10 still regularly shows…

Just use Linux. I don't see much point in using windows in 2021, even for gaming.

>even for gaming.

Gaming is quite possibly going to be an issue. Proton has made great strides, but some games just don't work well or at all.

Re: Windows 10 to be retired in 2025, as new OS unveils

#380

Post by amatecha »

beervirus wrote: post #104
philliphaydon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pass. Windows 10 is just so much better than 7. I still don’t get why people don’t move on. I’m happier having window 10 which has never crashed on me vs 7 which did it weekly.

Your experience with 7 is extremely atypical.

Right? The only time someone has weekly crashes is bad drivers or bad hardware. I had multiple-months uptime on my Win7 machines and it only wasn't longer because I would reboot for whatever non-essential reason.
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