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Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

reuters.com

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Re: Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

#121

Its very hard. Even if you build an EU Facebook that is awesome, how do you make users switch? All the data is in the old Facebook. Not just your profile: groups, pages, marketplace etc etc

Enforcing the GDPR properly would make Facebook as we currently know it unsustainable, so they'd have to charge money, opening themselves up to competition.

Thats quite harsh though, lots of people rely on Facebook for their business/pages/groups etc. Whats more the U.S can retaliate back since it can be seen as protectionism...

Re: Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

#122
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it bureaucracy, whatever the implications, is perfectly fair... assuming we're talking about the subject of this article. This is about 27 separate national governments to apply separate regulatory procedures, rather than just having Ireland's current gdpr enforcement. That's not necessarily bad, but it is more bureaucracy.

A major goal of GDPR was to streamline enforcement and reduce compliance cost. Then people thought they could use Ireland to just avoid it, and instead they now have to worry about 27 DPAs, so it utterly backfired. Same dynamic in USA: they blocked national level privacy laws for decades and now they’ll have to deal with 50 state laws instead, which is much more onerous.

US states will not have the same issues that GDPR had. The bounds of enforcement will be much more clear and the US has a much clearer way of dealing with vagueness in laws in general. Despite assurances, US companies do not like the “the statute documents the intent but not all of the specifics” approach the EU uses.

Re: Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

#123
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU invests massive amounts in technology (in regards to its paltry investment budget, but that's another debate) The problem is that the EU invests. Small businesses are taxed to death and swamped with bureaucracy. From that you can clearly see where this is going.

As someone running s small business in the EU: how am I taxed to death? The only taxes a startup really needs to care about are taxes on salary but since competent employees are a fraction of the cost here compared to SF it does not matter that taxes are higher. There is also VAT which can affect some businesses but in general is not too big of a deal. No, I can't see how taxes are to blame. Taxes are not signficant…

it could be the fact that EU employees are randomly out of office(vacation) for months at a time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this comment a lot but I have never seen any evidence for this. What exactly is the barrier that a tech startup faces in Europe vs US? Which regulations are in the way (and are they EU or national ones)? There is a lot of bs thrown around e.g. GDPR is far from evil or bothersome, as well funded lobby groups have made it out to be. You don't need cookie warnings if you use cookies to log your users in, only if y…

I see this comment a lot but I have never seen any evidence for this. While this is not intended as a criticism of you personally, you have ironically just demonstrated a big part of the problem. I might reply that I have seen this response a lot, no matter how often I have previously given detailed examples, sometimes even in the same forum. A lot of people who haven't themselves tried to run a business in this envi…

Agree with all of these.

In the US there are multiple turnkey schemes for #2, though, albeit at some cost. Is there a gap in the EU?

Re: Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

#125
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the country of the European Union

Frankly, given the primacy of EU law it's strange to me that EU members feel like they really are countries anymore.

From my perspective, EU law does not play the most dominant role in everyday life. Apart from the big (or super silly) changes, it’s often more of a news maker. Take that plus big cultural differences (most notably: not being able to understand each other’s language), and you get a feeling of own nationalities.

Re: Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

#126
post #123
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone running s small business in the EU: how am I taxed to death? The only taxes a startup really needs to care about are taxes on salary but since competent employees are a fraction of the cost here compared to SF it does not matter that taxes are higher. There is also VAT which can affect some businesses but in general is not too big of a deal. No, I can't see how taxes are to blame. Taxes are not signficant…

it could be the fact that EU employees are randomly out of office(vacation) for months at a time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've never worked at a place where vacation was random. The most common pattern I've seen is a fairly tight bell curve centered on July, with individuals spread out a bit depending on individual and business needs.

Re: Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this comment a lot but I have never seen any evidence for this. While this is not intended as a criticism of you personally, you have ironically just demonstrated a big part of the problem. I might reply that I have seen this response a lot, no matter how often I have previously given detailed examples, sometimes even in the same forum. A lot of people who haven't themselves tried to run a business in this envi…

Agree with all of these. In the US there are multiple turnkey schemes for #2, though, albeit at some cost. Is there a gap in the EU?

Many of the rules around hiring employees are national rather than EU, so anything that did the whole lot as a turnkey solution would probably have to vary significantly from one member state to another (and within the UK, which for now remains aligned with the EU rules as well).

You can certainly get software that handles things like payroll and statutory leave. Using it has become a practical necessity anyway since governments like the UK's started requiring payroll data to be filed electronically using approved software built on top of their API.

IMHO, the problem with becoming an employer for the first time is that there are so many things that an employer is now required to arrange that even if they are individually quite reasonable the cumulative effort can be a deterrent.

For example, if an employee at your tech firm uses a display screen, you must arrange and pay for an eyesight test with a suitably qualified professional if they ask for one. You must also pay for their glasses if they need an extra prescription specifically for display screen use, but you don't need to do this if their ordinary prescription is already suitable.

While you're dealing with H&S issues, don't forget to conduct your suitable and sufficient risk assessment for each new employee who is going to be working from home during the pandemic restrictions and then make any changes needed so they can do so in a safe and healthy way, whatever any of that actually means in practice.

The list of things you're automatically responsible for the moment you become someone's employer is pretty long in my country, and if you want to get it even close to right you'll probably end up dealing with lawyers, accountants, insurers, pension providers, HMRC, anyone who makes related software you now need to use, and from time to time possibly others like medical professionals.

As far as I'm aware, the closest thing to a turnkey solution that covers all of this is engaging an HR professional, presumably on a consultancy basis since you hardly need one full time if you're a bootstrapped startup looking for employee #1. But then that's more cost to deal with, and it's still going to take considerable time for one or more of your founders to make all the necessary arrangements even if you've brought in an expert to tell you what those arrangements need to be.

Re: Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enforcing the GDPR properly would make Facebook as we currently know it unsustainable, so they'd have to charge money, opening themselves up to competition.

Thats quite harsh though, lots of people rely on Facebook for their business/pages/groups etc. Whats more the U.S can retaliate back since it can be seen as protectionism...

I don’t deny that lots of people rely on Facebook.

However what the GDPR demands seems absolutely reasonable. All it requires is that the company must be transparent with what data it collects, how it uses it and gives each individual control of whether they want to allow Facebook to collect and use their data for specific purposes.

If Facebook can’t sustain itself without stalking everyone, it’s a problem with Facebook, not with the GDPR.

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