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Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

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Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#501

Post by fullstop »

ewmiller wrote: post #475
jstummbillig wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are far better off than the average American household you could definitely consider yourself wealthy.

My dad has a friend who owns a bus-sized camper/RV in addition to multiple cars and a beachfront home, but doesn't consider himself rich because he can't afford a large boat. Point being, I think people are more aware of the unattained wealth above them than the levels they've already surpassed. (Myself included). The comment you replied to strikes me in the same way, though not nearly as blatant!

"Remember when you wanted what you currently have?"

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#502

Post by throwaway24124 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #235

I mentor college students as part of a structured mentoring program. Some of the young people who come through the group have wildly pessimistic views on the world, especially as it pertains to jobs and capitalism. Part of our job is to defuse some of the more self-defeating views, but it’s increasingly difficult to compete against the non-stop onslaught of pessimism that comes from their subreddits and Twitter follo…

How do you counter/defuse these views?

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#503

Post by throwkeep »

Frost1x wrote: post #347
throwkeep wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also living space per person has nearly doubled since the 70s. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-us-homes-today-are-1000-s...

This was linked elsewhere and it only talks about home ownership and says nothing about renting which is the only viable option for many Americans. It doesn't say how many are renting vs owning and how renting has fared in growth/decline per capita.

Agree, it also doesn't help that we haven't been building enough new housing to keep up with growth.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#504

Post by adkadskhj »

ewmiller wrote: post #475
jstummbillig wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are far better off than the average American household you could definitely consider yourself wealthy.

My dad has a friend who owns a bus-sized camper/RV in addition to multiple cars and a beachfront home, but doesn't consider himself rich because he can't afford a large boat. Point being, I think people are more aware of the unattained wealth above them than the levels they've already surpassed. (Myself included). The comment you replied to strikes me in the same way, though not nearly as blatant!

I replied https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27516973 - curious what your thoughts are on it. But no, i have literally zero fancy expenses. My car is 10 years old, my mortgage is not paid off, i don't have retirement, but all of those things are being worked on, and i am quite financially stable.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#506

Post by pram »

api wrote: post #387
pram wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The industrial revolution started a century before 'end' of slavery. I mean, cotton was pretty much the basis of most early industry. Where do you think it came from.

The industrial revolution mostly happened in England. American industrialization came later and was mostly imported at first via the same kind of industrial espionage plus protectionism that China is using today. (The USA was the China of the 19th century.) Slavery dwindled away in England around the same time and was abolished in 1833 right before the industrial revolution really went white hot. I should have mentio…

England imported the cotton that was harvested by slaves in the new world. The fact that the manufacturing of finished goods was based on wage labor doesn’t change that the required raw inputs depended on exploitation elsewhere. Unless you think there were lots of wage based cotton plantations in England.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#507

Post by antiterra »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #173
bko wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe this? What would you tell this to someone who wasn't born into wealth or opportunity? You're pretty much screwed, don't bother? What impact do you think teaching nihilism has on children? I don't believe its true, but even if it were, it's not a useful model for life.

Obviously people should do what they can to improve their situation. If someone is living in poverty, they should do what they can to get out of it. But we're being fundamentally dishonest if we end the conversation there. People who are born poor have to work much harder to get out of it. Mistakes or misfortune that wouldn't be a big deal for someone in the middle class can be catastrophic for the poor. Ignoring tha…

Amazon warehouse workers who don’t make numbers and are let go work MUCH harder than I ever had to, and I was born into a single parent lower middle income. For me, luck was finding a social circle centered around stuff like Unix shell accounts and building Linux boxes.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#508

Post by traveler01 »

kaladin_1 wrote: post #286
traveler01 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile I work hard and I haven't had a vacation in 3 years. Also my wage sucks too, and I'm a programmer. In my country I believe being in politics would help me way more than working hard. Working hard doesn't help anyone.

Hahahaha If you said you were Nigerian, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Politicians are the real big shots with few exceptions of course.

I'm Portuguese. It's an European country but sometimes doesn't look like it.

We get fed the notion that if we work hard, study, pay our taxes in time and etc we will be good in life. Absolute lies, a big percentage of poor people in Portugal actually have jobs and these jobs are stable...

We also have licensed workers receiving minimum wage (640€)...

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#509

Post by Chris2048 »

drakythe wrote: post #257
datapls wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me the data that supports this claim. Big claim, zero citations. As an American I've never met anyone who thinks wealth reflects "wealth of the soul." In my experience people here are Christian, in which case there's that verse about heaven and wealth and the eye of the needle (Google it) or they're atheist and don't believe in souls.

>In my experience people here are Christian You need new experiences. Only ~70% of the US claims christianity ( https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ ) -- and that is "claims" because we all know there are people who do not practice what they preach. If you have more than 10 friends and don't know a single non-christian, your anecdotal experience most certainly does not reflect the data. Additionally, g…

anecdotal experience needn't ever reflect data, since humans can cluster into similar groups.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#510

Post by dahart »

sokoloff wrote: post #479
dahart wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Working as a plumber, an electrician, or a carpenter can be quite lucrative This narrative about wealthy trades people like plumbers and welders is not well supported by any data. The ones who do well are the ones who start businesses and hire people, so they become business owners, but most trades people don’t end up there and they obviously can’t all do it. You should know that the U.S. Fed (St. Louis) published…

> on average a 4 year degree doubles your income vs anything less The data suggests that people who hold a 4-year degree have X ratio of income. That's two things: the people and the degree, not just the degree. From a previous study, a related (but inexact) surprising outcome emerged: After adjusting for applicant scholastic aptitude, the additional benefit from attending an elite school is “generally indistinguisha…

> That's two things: the people and the degree, not just the degree.

Yes, true, it’s a valid point, but there’s really no debate over whether getting the degree is causal. And side note, the Fed’s data is for all Americans, not just a suggestive sample. The line between holding a degree and not is surprisingly clear. All the debate is over what the cause actually is. Specifically, to what degree the content of the education is responsible for better earnings vs whether simply holding a certificate, but not necessarily learning anything or gaining skills, is the reason for higher income. And I’m no expert here, I’ve only browsed a handful of them, but my understanding is that they more or less all conclude it’s a mixture.

And yes, selectivity of school has less effect than selective schools might have you believe, at the same time that just having a degree from a state university has more effect than some people suggest.

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