Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers • Hacker News Board

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#551

Post by hindsightbias » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #176

cm2012 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up going to a school maybe 20% practicing Christian. Everyone celebrated christmas, got and gave gifts, had family dinners around then, etc.

Yeah, dude, that’s what it means to have a defacto state religion: it becomes the default thing. A classic characteristic of state religions is that even those who do not believe will institutionally practise. So, for instance, even Buddhists in Jordan must not eat in public during Ramadan. Considering everything I was told about America, I was surprised to see that it is a Christian nation (I expected it to not be b…

> SF has recently made specific parking laws for churches

Context matters.

This is not a general xtian supremacy thing. It is a unique historical thing with SF AA Baptist churches whose populations were gentrified out of their neighborhoods. Their churches remained and they commute from all over the Bay Area to attend Sunday mass.

Cops and neighborhoods accomodated this practice, but the latest generation of gentrifiers whined and complained as they are wont to do so the Supervisors got involved.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#552

Post by munk-a » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #523

lamontcg wrote: post #495

I don't understand this fetishism with centrism and all opinions being treated equally, and that having made up your mind on an issue is necessarily wrong. When it comes to an issue like, say, climate change, I spent years reading the blogosphere, reading blogs like WUWT and whatever Judith Curry would come up with, and then the rebuttals, sometimes waiting years for the science to come out. For any issue around clim…

I disagree. Climate change is a terrible example to prove your point. It's an easy one and weakens your argument about balance. Climate change has scientific consensus and has gotten better over time. Most political issues left/right are concerned about issues that are far more nuanced and there isn't enough data to back it up, or even if there is data, there are gaping holes in methodology and eventually boils down…

If we're talking about global fiscal policy in America I'm not certain what party you're pointing to as not being neo-liberal. There are many problems with a two party system but the one America is currently suffering from is that the GOP is made up of neoliberals and the Dems are also neoliberals. This is why Trump saw success in the primary, and why it is extremely foolish to discount demagogues no matter what their truly held beliefs. Being able to spin yourself as a non-neoliberal, even briefly, makes 80% of America start salivating.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#553

Post by arrozconcosas » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

Here is an awesome take on this subject: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/10/01/the-low-informati...

I’m going to suggest that unless you work directly in the news media industry yourself, you too should be paying absolutely no attention to the news.

“It is all Bullshit”, is what Mr. Money Mustache says, “You need to get the News out of your life, right away, and for life.”

The reasons for this are plentiful, from the inherently sucky nature of news programming itself, to the spectacular life benefits of adopting a Low Information Diet in general. But let’s start with the news.

News programs are, with the exception of a few non-profit or publicly funded ones, commercial enterprises designed to turn and maximize profit. Many of them are owned by larger shareholder-owned corporations, most notably Rupert Murdoch’s News corp. The profit comes from advertising, and advertising revenue is maximized by pulling the largest audience, holding their attention for the longest possible time, and putting them into the mental state most conducive to purchasing the products of the advertisers (which turns out to be helplessness and vulnerability).

Another great perspective on this: This Video Will Make You Angry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#554

Post by dukeofdoom » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #531

adflux wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why mention Joe Rogan viewers...?

Because Joe Rogan has a habit of hosting individuals who are blatant frauds and plays it off as "representing both sides". When you have Alex Jones on and let him spew outright lies for an hour without questioning any of it, you've lost all credibility.

I totally disagree, Alex Jones is a satirist. His biggest contribution is being sometimes correct with his outlandish claims. And casting doubt of the corporate media narrative, which is often just as false, but presented as some sort of gospel, that must be accepted with ernest, and repeated with one voice.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#555

Post by throwaway8582 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

boredprograming wrote: post #445

Moodles wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, sure, but why are we talking about Fox specifically? CNN, MSNBC, etc. are just as bad. I find this ironic since this thread is about how bias isn't necessarily about outright falsehoods, but story selection and what is not said :)

Fox news personalities frequently allow Trump and his allies airtime where they lie about losing the election to Biden. I don't know how you get any less truthful than that

How about making up fake stories about Russian prostitutes and hackers to try and overturn the results of an election that didn't go your way? Anyone that wants to complain about Fox News and let CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, and the rest of the "mainstream" media outlets slide for printing that garbage after the 2016 election is not being intellectually honest.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#556

Post by _gohp » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

As a non US citizen,I would say US politics is not all that bad, neither party can be overthrown or something. I have plenty American friends who live or used to live in various states and different segments of society. Like anywhere else it's not perfect, but top 5 in the world I would say. In many latin American countries there is a fierce divide between left and right, the distribution of wealth is unlike anywhere else, the poor live in favelas, the middle class lives in gated and secured communities, simple things like leaving a gated community can be a danger to your wallet or life. The leftists are very extreme, the middle class is conservative, they want their status protected. Neither side realizes that it's better anywhere else in the world, almost literally. The left does not even offer a social system for the unemployed, this cannot deserves the label left and leads to most of the crime, they happen due to dire economic straits. No really, the USA are doing fine. Some people say the left in the us is a right wing light, but that is not accurate. Some states are as left as many EU countries. If you think either Obama or Trump were the worst, don't worry , Europe has worse, in the UK, Farrage, the hypocrite, Boris fake name Johnson and many more.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#557

Post by DerekL » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

solidasparagus wrote: post #274

whimsicalism wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has long since become just a western culture tradition with no particular religious significance for a lot of people I think that people have a tendency to underestimate the degree of Christian influence on their way of life, and the vast majority of people who practice xmas are Christian, even if they are not weekly church attendees. I was raised in an atheist household, we definitely viewed Christmas as a reli…

Christmas is a very secular holiday. There is still mass, but in American culture the religious aspect of Christmas is minuscule in comparison to the secular and consumerism aspects. "Most of the songs are very religious" is just not true for most mainstream Americans. For most Americans Christmas is about family, Santa (Coke's version), Reindeers, Elves, Trees, and Gifts. And then local or family traditions which ma…

> Santa (Coke's version)

“The image of Santa Claus as a jolly large man in a red-and-white suit was the standard long before Coca-Cola co-opted it for their advertising.”

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-claus-that-refreshes/

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#558

Post by watwut » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #544

JKCalhoun wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I'm reminded of the woman who had survived the Holocaust and was asked to be interviewed — where they would also bring on a Holocaust denier ... you know, for balance. Thankfully, she declined. But the point is of course: here we are.

Context aside, that sounds like it would have been a powerful film. A denier face to face with an eyewitness, presumably with the eyewitness prepared with all of the innumerable pieces of indisputable evidence. Talk about losing, that's losing.

She would be eye witness talking about own experience. It is super easy to attack against that or manipulate to make her sound crazy. She is not historian to know nuances of stuff deniers talk about.

The denier would be prepared too.

Deniers often claim the extend of it was much smaller or that leadership had no idea. Victim being tortured cant speak of thosez historian could.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#559

Post by gabriel9 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

boredprograming wrote: post #505

Moodles wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should refund the police, and then call them! What are you arguing about? 1. Someone mentions Fox being bad for bias in story selection. 2. I ask: why are we singling out Fox specifically? Others do it too? 3. You say: "They give Trump airtime!" Ok? That is a difference I guess? Not got much to do with what we're talking about though?

It's an example of how Fox is less honest than other news companies, exactly what you asked for. They let people on air spout obvious lies all the time. Find a mainstream channel that does the same. I'll wait

I am not from US. And could not care less who won. I think there is no less honest. It is simple, you lie or don't. In my eyes they are all bad, and it is up to me to inform myself.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#560

Post by tw04 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #523

lamontcg wrote: post #495

I don't understand this fetishism with centrism and all opinions being treated equally, and that having made up your mind on an issue is necessarily wrong. When it comes to an issue like, say, climate change, I spent years reading the blogosphere, reading blogs like WUWT and whatever Judith Curry would come up with, and then the rebuttals, sometimes waiting years for the science to come out. For any issue around clim…

I disagree. Climate change is a terrible example to prove your point. It's an easy one and weakens your argument about balance. Climate change has scientific consensus and has gotten better over time. Most political issues left/right are concerned about issues that are far more nuanced and there isn't enough data to back it up, or even if there is data, there are gaping holes in methodology and eventually boils down…

>Climate change has scientific consensus and has gotten better over time.

You do realize that the Fox New crowd and the Republican party are still denying that humans have any affect on the climate, right? 30 seconds in the comments section on this latest story for instance tells you all you need to know:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-climate-change-greate...