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Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

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Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#431

Post by jollybean »

dandersh wrote: post #278
crazygringo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend the Economist . Their articles mostly follow a dialectical format -- thesis, antithesis, synthesis, with about a third of the article spent on each one. I don't know of any other publication whose house style is so rigorous in this. It's also highly editorialized, but very open and transparent about the positions it takes -- any bias they have is in the open, but is in the final synthesis after the…

There are some benefits to the Economist, such as the ones you mentioned but I don't know that I could recommend it, at least without a secondary source for what you're reading there. I stopped reading it about 10 years ago for a few reasons. During the housing crisis the coverage wasn't as deep as it should have been and I would read articles that were nothing more than "nationalizing banks is bad" without explainin…

"Their coverage of US politics was also laughably bad."

It's an English magazine that's not even 'News'.

Also this: "During the push to pass the ACA they overstated the GOP's position and willingness to deal." Is a pretty petty reason to not read something. Also, they could have been right.

There are better reasons not to read the Economist.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#432

Post by rayiner »

pmoriarty wrote: post #361
throwawayboise wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the same is true about CNN's opinion pieces, or MSNBC's, etc, they are just on the opposite side of the spectrum.

CNN and MSNBC are not the opposite of Fox News. The opposite would be something like The Nation or Democracy Now! .

Fox News has moderated a lot over the past few years, while CNN and MSNBC have moved quite a bit to the left. You see it more on cultural issues than say economic or foreign policy issues. Joy Reid, for example, just says the most outrageous falsehoods and goes completely unrebutted: https://twitter.com/wesyang/status/1403950560907300865?s=20

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#433

Post by mariodiana »

boredprograming wrote: post #263
losvedir wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They dont talk about or even cover the same things Yeah, this is a key thing to realize. People seem to think that Fox News, for example, just trots out falsehoods all the time, but if you skim the news, I'd say very little is actually factually incorrect. It's more about the story selection, who they choose to interview to get the quote, how they contextualize (or don't) statistics, etc. But once you realize that,…

Fox New's actual news coverage is mostly truthful. But a huge amount of their airtime is opinion pieces and media personalities who spout BS all day. Tucker Carlson is probably the most notorious. Plus they have Republican politicians calling in and showing up constantly, and they're allowed to say whatever they want.

I've heard people characterize cable news as kayfabe—the handbook for professional wrestling. Cable news is entertainment, and the same way the WWF was eventually pressured into changing their name to the WWE, we have to hope one day CNN and Fox News (along with MSNBC, etc.) will change their monikers.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#434

Post by commandlinefan »

bena wrote: post #367
commandlinefan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By what measure is CNN's news coverage on the leftmost side "The latest Trump scandal shows how much we must still discover about his presidency's assault on democracy" "Trump's DOJ continued to pursue a CNN reporter's records even after a federal judge called the reasoning 'unanchored in any facts'" "A senate report reveals new details about the stunning security breakdowns ahead of the January 6 attack but omits…

Here's the problem with your framing: It's not "left-wing" if it's true. The first. Sure, that's an opinionated take on the facts of the matter. But the facts aren't great either. The second. Did a federal judge call the reasoning "unanchored in any facts"? If so, then they're just telling you what the judge said. Did the Trump DOJ then continue to pursue those records? If so, then they're just telling you what happe…

> It's not "left-wing" if it's true.

Then Fox News is also not right-wing.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#435

Post by rejectedandsad »

myfavoritedog wrote: post #365
rejectedandsad wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the bunker when violent protesters were threatening to breach the security of the White House Yeah because they didn’t and Trump hilariously lied about the incident. Even they weren’t saying “hang Mike Pence” > Hillary Clinton spent years claiming that the election of Trump was illegitimate. She did win the popular vote, while Trump won neither while claiming he did win both…. > They created an environment that was…

I started writing out all the tit-for-tat responses, then I remembered that this topic is about media narrative bubbles. I already know all of your claims because I watch broadcast news programs here and there. I see the news reports on Good Morning America when we have it on. I know what the left-wing narratives are. That's my point. It's the default. You have to work harder to get something that isn't in that bubbl…

You're seeing the point. This isn't a bubble. This is objective reality.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#437

Post by whimsicalism »

pmoriarty wrote: post #381
rootusrootus wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ceremonial going out for chinese food Wait, what, this is a thing? I'd never heard of that. Like, only the Jews would do it? Or more generally it's common for everyone to go out for Chinese food on Christmas? That has to be regional, if it's true. Kinda funny either way.

In the US most restaurants close on Christmas, with Chinese and other Asian restaurants often being the only ones open. So if you want to go out to a restaurant to celebrate there usually isn't much choice. I'm sure if more restaurants were open people would be celebrating at all sorts of other restaurants as well.

At least where I grew up, it was more than just "these are the restaurants that are open." Perhaps it started as that but it is now a cultural tradition.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#438

Post by wutbrodo »

apocolyps6 wrote: post #221
elefanten wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christmas doesn’t signify religion in America. And I can’t remember the last time I saw church in a movie that wasn’t a comedy using the setting for a set-up

Do your Muslim friends celebrate Christmas? Do your Jewish friends? Most non-religious americans are something like Christian Atheists. They don't believe in a god, but their worldview, ethics, and cultural norms are still originating in Christianity.

My parents are non-Christian immigrants to the US and we celebrated Christmas every year growing up. Have you really not seen this? Especially in the cosmopolitan urban environments that Christmas movie settings skew towards?

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#439

Post by sudosysgen »

JAlexoid wrote: post #369
sudosysgen wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recommend using the Economist as your only source for international news. It's very deeply ideological in a way that is almost invisible if you can't easily compare it to a known truth. It's certainly not only interested in solutions that can be implemented. It's interested in solutions that enforce the free market, and it paints non-market solutions as infeasible, even though they often work and are implemen…

The Economist is one of the least biased sources of news, that routinely publishes letters, opeds and articles contradicting the sated editorial agenda. Very few other news sources actually do that. They're not perfect, but it sure beats NYT. If you want the optimal news coverage without needing to read a million sources - The Economist, Financial Times, WSJ and The Guardian.

As I said, they show both sides, but they choose which two.

They are not as forthcoming with their biases as it seems. They mainly set up their ideological oppositions as conservatives, but they in fact have a lot in common with them. This is especially true for foreign relations.

I'd be happy to see examples of articles that go against the Economists' editorial agenda in profound ways and that pertain to foreign policy.

If you want news coverage that is any good at all and you care about foreign affairs you absolutely have to include at least one and preferably two non-anglophone or non-western sources that preferably oppose each other.

A good barometer I have for journals as far as foreign policy is their coverage of the Iraq War before it began. As far as I can see the Economist published almost nothing opposing it, limiting themselves to surface-level reporting of anti-war arguments in the sole goal of defeating them.

I don't understand why you would limit yourself, if you had to choose 4 sources, to 4 centrist anglophone sources. It seems like a very biased media diet.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#440

Post by myko »

myfavoritedog wrote: post #205
Impassionata wrote: post #88

Haidt's work gets trotted out a lot, but it was prior to the fascist turn of the Republican party. Now Republicans live in a mostly imagined political reality.

fascist turn of the Republican party This is just projection from the Left that is working so hard to cancel anyone who steps politically out of line. They think that calling a group "Antifa" makes it anti-fascist, despite their tactics of violently terrorizing anyone with whom they politically disagree - even to the extent of their attacking journalists who simply document their activities. But somehow Republicans a…

> This is just projection from the Left that is working so hard to cancel anyone who steps politically out of line.

To be clear, the leader of the conservative party of the US recently attempted a coup.

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