Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers • Hacker News Board

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#321

Post by rejectedandsad » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #303

rejectedandsad wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s quite hard to reason with a political movement in which half don’t believe the guy that got 51% of the vote and 306 electoral votes isn’t the president, to the extent of sympathizing with an attack on the electoral vote count and “auditing” the ballots repeatedly. A majority of the house republicans caucus effectively voted to bypass the will of the people during the electoral vote count - makes the Democratic o…

No, but the democrats did spend 2017 looking for every excuse to impeach Trump they could find.

That’s just untrue given they didn’t have the house or senate in 2017.

They didn’t even spend 2019 doing it, even after the Mueller report. When they did impeach him it was on the narrowest possible scope and they got 1 bipartisan vote for removal.

And that’s before the second impeachment which had several Republican backers in the house and senate.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#322

Post by selimthegrim » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #123

robmccoll wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in one of the (upper?) middle class parts of Atlanta and I really hope they don't do that. Crime rates are up in a bad way, and the city can be pretty mismanaged, but taking your ball and going home isn't a real option. It's just going to hurt the city that will still be right next door, and that has your sports (some of it, Braves are gone), museums and culture, restaurants, a lot of work spaces and shopping,…

In general, I agree with you, but in the case of Atlanta and Fulton county that narrative is in conflict with repeated poor management. Lots of cities have incorporated over the past 20 years and ended up with better services and lower taxes. Part of that is due to siphoning off funds that would help worse off, but most is just due to more efficient management. I used to not support the idea of reforming Milton count…

Didn't Marta extensions get voted down by those same suburban counties?

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#323

Post by clairity » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #259

clairity wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

christianity, islam, hinduism, along with the eastern constellation of buddhism/confucianism are the 4 world religions. people of color are roughly 4/5 of the world population. even while christianity and white folks are the majority in the US, it makes sense numerically to have these other aspects of humanity well represented, in addition to white and/or christian. what's puzzling is the outsized representation of j…

> even while christianity and white folks are the majority in the US, it makes sense numerically to have these other aspects of humanity well represented, in addition to white and/or christian. I’m not white, Christian, or Jewish, and this sentence does not make sense to me. Making entertaining is a business, and it has nothing to do with what percent of people worldwide have what skin color or tribal affiliations. I…

ah yes, the token characters, there to either not alienate a foreign market or to meet some superficial diversity quota.

the point is that in a world without significant bias, we'd expect to see many more people of color and of other religions (to name just two aspects) being represented because of sheer numbers and because talents are distributed widely.

but that doesn't happen in this world.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#324

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #228

slibhb wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To make it contemporary: Should I be trying to get into the mind of a Q Conspiracy theorist? An Antivaxer? How many conspiracies do I need delve into and understand such that I can make a passionate argument for them? Yes and it's disturbing that you (and many others) have no interest in understanding other people.

There is no end to conspiracy theories. Why should I be obligated to delve into other people's psychosis? I'm not a psychiatrist. There are many more constructive things to spend time on.

When such ideas become mainstream enough to start influencing politics, it would be a good idea to try to understand why those ideas have taken root and grown to that level of influence.

Even when such ideas are batshit insane, they are almost always indicative of some severe underlying issue. If that issue isn't addressed, then such ideas keep growing and growing and could eventually lead to disaster.

That Q Anon and the like are taken seriously by as many people as they appear to be, enough to start influencing mainstream politics, should set off all sorts of alarm bells about the state of our society.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#325

Post by axguscbklp » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #116

hn8788 wrote: post #31

An underrated way to get out of your echo chamber is to actually talk to people in person. I lean fairly conservative, while my wife and her friends are very liberal. Whenever we happen to talk about political topics, most of the time we end up understanding where each other are coming from, even if we still don't agree.

Perhaps your political viewpoints are fairly mild compared to mainstream conservative discourse? It's difficult to have civil discourse with someone who says your identify (or the identify of those you love) should be outlawed or otherwise severely restricted by the state. That's been a core tenet of conservative politics and policy for several years now and I do not have the intellectual tools nor the emotional stre…

>It's difficult to have civil discourse with someone who says your identify (or the identify of those you love) should be outlawed or otherwise severely restricted by the state. That's been a core tenet of conservative politics and policy for several years now

On the far right yes, but not in mainstream conservatism. For example, a recent poll shows that 55% of Republicans support gay marriage (https://www.npr.org/2021/06/09/1004629612/a-record-number-of...). And that is even putting aside the question of whether wishing for gay marriage to be illegal really constitutes a severe restriction of someone's identity or the identity of those they love.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#326

Post by whoooooo123 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

apocolyps6 wrote: post #221

elefanten wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christmas doesn’t signify religion in America. And I can’t remember the last time I saw church in a movie that wasn’t a comedy using the setting for a set-up

Do your Muslim friends celebrate Christmas? Do your Jewish friends? Most non-religious americans are something like Christian Atheists. They don't believe in a god, but their worldview, ethics, and cultural norms are still originating in Christianity.

That clearly isn't what GP was taking about. The point was about what % of film characters are identifiably Christian, not what % of film characters hail from a country with Christian heritage.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#327

Post by ProjectArcturis » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #93

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #4

I identify pretty closely with one side. But certainly there are Outrage Machines on both sides, a network of media and personalities hyping up the latest calumny that the other side committed, for views and clicks. These machines can't slow down -- even if the other side has been quiet lately, all those people need something to do and talk about. They'll find something.

Have you considered not “identifying”? Just choose your opinions on issues a la carte. Or even don’t have an opinion on a bunch of issues. I started doing that and now I’m kind of politically homeless but oh well. I do notice that I can talk to either side now which is cool and no one automatically puts up their defenses.

Well, I think I'm like most people in that I think one side is okay, but the other is absolutely evil. Definitely don't agree with my side on everything, and they're far from perfect, but I feel I have to support them because the alternative would be a genuine threat to the country.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#328

Post by throwaway894345 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #265

throwaway894345 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the state has official holidays for Christian events. If that alarms you, definitely do not go to Europe! That America has some unimportant vestiges of Christianity doesn't make it "a Christian nation" for any useful purposes. Yes, Trump did a bit of pandering to Christians which fooled precisely no one, but in any matter of substance America is resolvedly secular. If you want an accurate and useful model, think of…

I lived in Europe in de-jure religious nations. The fact that you find these comparable is exactly my point. For other readers, you can model America as parent comment or you can model America as I have described it. I think you will get more accurate predictions from my model but if you don’t believe that, ask other outsiders who have moved to America (and made it their home, as I have). Or come here yourself. Unfor…

> I lived in Europe in de-jure religious nations. The fact that you find these comparable is exactly my point.

You're extrapolating an awful lot from a joke, but in any case if Europe fails your test for secularism then what countries are more secular? China?

> The so-called separation of church and state is held up on as much of a pedestal as “freedom” with predictable effects: evidence contra these principles is ignored or considered a threat.

The principle of separation of church and state is the foundation for American secularism. It's strange to me that you're appealing to it as evidence that America is particularly religious. Do you reserve "secularism" only for polities that forbid religious practice?

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#329

Post by Epenthesis » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

apocolyps6 wrote: post #221

elefanten wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christmas doesn’t signify religion in America. And I can’t remember the last time I saw church in a movie that wasn’t a comedy using the setting for a set-up

Do your Muslim friends celebrate Christmas? Do your Jewish friends? Most non-religious americans are something like Christian Atheists. They don't believe in a god, but their worldview, ethics, and cultural norms are still originating in Christianity.

My Hindu American family "celebrates" Christmas (tree/lights/presents/big meal)

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#330

Post by selimthegrim » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #154

> “Until you can passionately make arguments for both sides,” she says, “you don’t understand the issue.” While this may be true for many issues, I don't think this is true for all issues. Imagine someone saying that just prior to the civil war on the issue of slavery, for example.

Lysander Spooner was happy to say that.