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“Great resignation” wave coming for companies

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Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, they still persist on presenting leetcode riddles that have very little relevance to the job being interviewed for. If they were hurting that much for devs, you'd think they might lower the bar a little by not requiring a years study of leetcode.

If I am running the company, I would MUCH rather operate short-handed than "fix" my recruiting problems by lowering the bar. You don't have to agree with the bar the companies are using, but that is the bar they have converged on, and one that plenty of people are capable of passing. Would much rather compete for those people.

> If I am running the company, I would MUCH rather operate short-handed than "fix" my recruiting problems by lowering the bar.

Nobody is talking about lowering the bar, but of putting the bar in the right zipcode.

An extremely high bar of leetcode testing is irrelevant to the actual job, so that's an irrelevant bar.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#582
I feel like I keep seeing articles on this topic, but nobody is addressing the (obvious) elephant in the room: If there is a great resignation, and people are quitting jobs they are not happy with - how are they going to pay their bills and way through life? Am I missing something?

It seems these articles all talk about workers realizing they are underpaid, overworked, and after a year don't want to go back to the same exploitive job. While I completely agree with all this, it doesn't address the question of how these newly unemployed workers will pay their bills and way through life

Are people just counting on their savings? If so, how many people can realistically live out of their savings (esp with rising costs of goods)? Do people think the extended unemployment benefits are going to continue for longer (this seems wildly unrealistic)?

I'm genuinely curious if there are answers to these questions? From my point of view, it seems these articles never mention the fact that people have jobs they don't like, because they have to in order to earn money (in normal non-pandemic times)

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the alternative perspective and productive-pessimism, but anecdotally in my immediate social circle of engineers, 5 have changed jobs - all for substantial upgrades, and not 1 of them was for a job that required office presence or downgrade in quality of environment. The last year has been so strong for online tech that there is a heavy vacuum effect on the available talent. FAANG are struggling to fill…

These comments about how the market is on fire for developers always make me sad. Not your fault, but outside the US (and maybe western/northern Europe) you get lowballed hard, even with years of experience. And the supposedly lower CoL doesn't make up for it, at all, not even remotely. I'm not even talking about getting crazy bay area compensations, I'm talking about hoping something better than a $25k-$45k range fo…

Filter bubbles are incredibly dangerous.

Every time I hang out my with most ambitious friends, I am reminded of how MSFT is 'low balling' company. That I could be making 2x if only I kept up with interviewing. On one hand, I can't avoid the objective truth of the statement. But, on the other hand, the hedonic treadmill is infinite.

I'm glad I am not in the bay area. I would've been paralyzed by the persistent reminders around me of my monetarily sub-optimal life choices. Get out out of my head: 'over-achieving friendo', I am already well into the 99th percentile of wage earners of my age in the world's richest country.

Over the last 5 years, I've seen a (COL non-adjusted) 100x (20x if I use a more practically true number) increase in salary. So far, My happiest moments have rarely required much money, let alone 100x as much as I had then.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the alternative perspective and productive-pessimism, but anecdotally in my immediate social circle of engineers, 5 have changed jobs - all for substantial upgrades, and not 1 of them was for a job that required office presence or downgrade in quality of environment. The last year has been so strong for online tech that there is a heavy vacuum effect on the available talent. FAANG are struggling to fill…

These comments about how the market is on fire for developers always make me sad. Not your fault, but outside the US (and maybe western/northern Europe) you get lowballed hard, even with years of experience. And the supposedly lower CoL doesn't make up for it, at all, not even remotely. I'm not even talking about getting crazy bay area compensations, I'm talking about hoping something better than a $25k-$45k range fo…

After 2020, there's much more fully remote openings in us that hire from across the globe and pay over $100k.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FAANG are struggling to fill demand in hiring and are offering increasingly high salaries This has been the case, according to my colleagues who are older, since at least 2003 ;-)

And yet, they still persist on presenting leetcode riddles that have very little relevance to the job being interviewed for. If they were hurting that much for devs, you'd think they might lower the bar a little by not requiring a years study of leetcode.

The riddle-like questions are trash, I agree. Any question that requires you to already know a slightly more arcane data structure or algorithm, or involves just regurgitating some algorithmic trick, or similar, really just gives you signal of "did this person already know the question beforehand?", and nothing else.

Not asking those types of questions, and instead asking a more straightforward programming question with relatively simple data structures, and some tradeoffs to be made, plus maybe some follow up optimization questions (but like in general systems terms, not code), tend to work better. But it's still whiteboard coding for the most part.

While I do detest leetcode interviews, I've yet to see another interview system that works for extremely large companies, that covers all the bases:

* won't result in you hiring someone who can't write a for-loop in their language of choice (I know fizz-buzz is a meme at this point, but I have interviewed people who failed a question easier than fizz-buzz before - not even on a whiteboard. People who genuinely cannot program at all will apply for programming jobs, and some of them will get past the recruiters.)

* is reasonably based on skills

* is not hyper selecting for "people extremely similar to people who already work here" (not "what school did you go to?" or "who do you know who already works here?" type stuff)

* can be made mostly uniform across the company (though, even leetcode-like interviews are hard to make uniform, it's easier than a lot of other methods)

* isn't trivially cheated (100% remote tests, where someone else just does it for you)

* won't be outright rejected by people who already have jobs (internships, though this does work well for new grads)

* won't be outright rejected by people who have less free time outside of the job (e.g. people with families, small kids won't go for "work for a week" type take-home assignments which say "couple hours" but you're competing against people who will dump 40+ hours into it in a single week)

A lot of other systems work really well if you're willing to slash your candidate pool to a smaller percentage, but break down once you start trying to fairly get at more candidates. Something that works well for a 1000 person company won't work if you have >50,000 developers. Something that works well for a company explicitly willing to exclude parents won't work well for a super large company.

Also, a lot of companies do change up the application process for people who are just out of school, in that they allow internships/etc, with a different route through than just interviews. (Though you usually have to go through an interview to get the internship, they tend to be way easier - having sat on such an intern hiring committee before, you get very few interviewers asking riddle/trick questions)

Time-wise, I can generally coach someone to pass a big tech interview loop in 1-3 months, not a year.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#586
post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am running the company, I would MUCH rather operate short-handed than "fix" my recruiting problems by lowering the bar. You don't have to agree with the bar the companies are using, but that is the bar they have converged on, and one that plenty of people are capable of passing. Would much rather compete for those people.

This is all contingent on said leetcode riddles actually helping with candidate selection. If they aren't, you've just limited your pool of potential candidates for no reason whatsoever.

https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#587
post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, even if you can save this much, put it in your 401(k), not a vacation savings account. The financial impact of taking a whole year without pay in your 20s probably adds 5 years to your retirement date, due to compounding interest and investment growth. Is it really worth it, just so you can fill your Insta with pictures of you windsurfing in Ibiza?

If you're writing so much software you hang out on HackerNews for fun, and you're not saving enough to max out your 401k AND have savings left over for 6 months off, you're doing your finances wrong (and/or you can get a 4x pay bump in a new job)

Oh I hang out on Hacker News for fun but it comes at the expense of not "writing so much software" ;)

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn to prevaricate better... And meet a friend who will do it for you. "Yeah, I was the CTO of a startup. I learned a lot. Call this guy who was the CEO, he'll tell you about it."

>"Yeah, I was the CTO of a startup. I learned a lot. Call this guy who was the CEO, he'll tell you about it." Ah yes, an intricate lie. The very foundation of a solid working relationship.

I've never had reason to embellish my resume, but let's not pretend employers don't exaggerate, are "aspirational" or outright lie what the job is about "You'll be working on cutting-edge technology" vs. "Actually, we plan on migrating to that cutting-edge platform soon, in the meantime, add features to our 'legacy' PHP5 and Java 1.7 platforms" and "We offer unlimited vacation" vs. "Everyone usually only takes the week between Christmas and new years as our clients shut down then. Currently, the team really needs your contribution to make the release deadline, so now is not a good time"

Both interviewer and interviewee have to be diligent during interview process to dig out the truth about important aspects of what they expect, and not just take it at face-value (asking pointed questions usually reveals the truth, for either party)

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#589
post #557
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't have any substantial savings until I was well into my 30s. I didn't graduate from grad school until I was 28. (Worked for a few years prior in engineering but nothing like the salary levels in SWE today.)

Despite being in software I had no savings until my late 30s. I am forever grateful that our field is one that allows for huge earnings, as it has enabled me to flip that all the way around. I'm now in my mid/late-40s and show up as low/mid 80s on that calculator depending on if I include my home equity. When I punch in my net worth at 40 I was around 20%. If my current glide path holds I'd be low-90s when I turn 50.…

Yeah, I did OK through the 90s but it was certainly not a high-paying job by current coastal software standards. (I actually looked at a few west coast jobs in that period and, frankly, they'd have been a downgrade because of CoL. Stocks were hit pretty hard, including my shares in my employer, and for various reasons my job during the next decade I generally liked (and it set me up for my current job well) but it didn't pay that well.

It was only really my current job and associated stock which took savings from just OK to pretty decent. I could retire now if I wanted to but not really in a big hurry assuming business travel comes back post-COVID.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#590
post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Expressing intent to resign, and actually resigning are completely different things. You have to ask yourself, why this is the case. And the simple answer is status quo bias. Many dream of a different life, but few will actually pull the trigger on a major change. However if a company suddenly changes an established working relationship, then all bets are off the table. If people have gotten used to WFH, and now yo…

> It’s the same reason that it’s virtually unheard of to cut salary, even when revenue is collapsing in a deflationary recession Yes, that’s why companies prefer lay offs rather than broad base salary cuts. Lay offs are a temporary hit to morale, while pay cuts are more permanent. Moreover, in lay offs, you can fire least productive workers, while after pay cut, it’s the most productive that will leave first.

I've seen more jobs offer like 10% yearly bonuses for the reason that I assume is the ability to cut back on costs in a pinch without touching the salary itself per se.
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