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Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

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Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#71

Post by adrianN »

runevault wrote: post #61
adrianN wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until we figure out a way to make lots of money from deep space missions, progress will be slow. The space race was, imo, mostly a race to optimize nuclear warhead delivery systems.

We probably would need to somehow uncover massive deposits of rare "earth" elements or similar to convince people to push for reaching to space seriously again.

Mining some Unobtainium from the asteroid belt seems to be the most plausible thing we can do in deep space that we can't do in LEO or right on the ground.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#72

Post by yummypaint »

yummypaint wrote: post #69
dukoid wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be straightforward to produce 2G on earth in a rotating ring (combining forces similar to superelevation in rail tracks)?

Yeah there are carnival rides that basically do this. If scaled up to maybe 100 meter diameter horizontal ring the coriolis forces shouldn't be too bothersome. The floor would be banked to seem level to the people inside. There would still be some weird second order effects but it seems like it could be livable for days at a time. The room should be as thin as possible if the floor is to be flat in one direction to m…

Closest thing i found:

"In the late 1950s, two scientists, Carl Clark and James Hardy, had a more daring idea. Physics dictated that if a spacecraft could be steadily accelerated at 2 Gs, it could reach the moon or Mars in days or even hours. But could a human being survive the constant acceleration? Clark used the centrifuge to find out.

“He essentially moved into the cab, brought his La-Z-Boy from home, and stayed in there at 2 G for 24 hours,” says Shender. Clark slept, ate, worked, and lived at two Gs for a full day under constant medical surveillance. He suffered nothing more than fatigue. Further marathon rides were planned, but more immediate space missions loomed and the idea was set aside. "

https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/the-g-machine-...

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#73

Post by geoduck14 »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #15
aphroz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who are saying that is not possible and that it does not make sense economically speaking have won. We are now in hands of managers, not dreamers.

It is possible, perhaps even 10 or 20 years ago, But it isn't economically feasible. You could build or refurbish the ISS into something that looked a Japanese capsule hotel 'fairly cheaply', but getting there still costs millions, we are thousands or 10s of thousands of spacecraft away from making them cheap to produce and run. Hotels on earth aren't exactly money spinners and apart from the zero gravity and looking…

> the novelty of being in space would probably wear off after a day or two.

"I could get used to a view like this" - Flynn Ryder

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#74

Post by yummypaint »

yummypaint wrote: post #72
yummypaint wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there are carnival rides that basically do this. If scaled up to maybe 100 meter diameter horizontal ring the coriolis forces shouldn't be too bothersome. The floor would be banked to seem level to the people inside. There would still be some weird second order effects but it seems like it could be livable for days at a time. The room should be as thin as possible if the floor is to be flat in one direction to m…

Closest thing i found: "In the late 1950s, two scientists, Carl Clark and James Hardy, had a more daring idea. Physics dictated that if a spacecraft could be steadily accelerated at 2 Gs, it could reach the moon or Mars in days or even hours. But could a human being survive the constant acceleration? Clark used the centrifuge to find out. “He essentially moved into the cab, brought his La-Z-Boy from home, and stayed…

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMLe7WB_86Q

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#75

Post by aphroz »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #15
aphroz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who are saying that is not possible and that it does not make sense economically speaking have won. We are now in hands of managers, not dreamers.

It is possible, perhaps even 10 or 20 years ago, But it isn't economically feasible. You could build or refurbish the ISS into something that looked a Japanese capsule hotel 'fairly cheaply', but getting there still costs millions, we are thousands or 10s of thousands of spacecraft away from making them cheap to produce and run. Hotels on earth aren't exactly money spinners and apart from the zero gravity and looking…

But what is economy anyway ? Recent events showed us that money was not economy, you can print as much as you want and 'helicopter' it.

It is more about the resources, do we have enough of it to make it possible for regular people to travel to space ? Probably not on earth, so let's build mega factories on the Moon. You might argue it's not possible or feasible for some physic reasons, so let's find a solution. But not money, money does not exist, it's made up.

The purpose of humanity as I see it is not to go smoothly and safely, to be able to go without troubles to a final destination (that does not exist). I say buckle up and let's do it! As Billy said you need to be solution oriented.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#76

Post by Tabular-Iceberg »

_joel wrote: post #59
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be used to could make cars based on hydrogen which while thermal, would be also without net carbon emission, isn't?

Sabtier doesn't make H2, it makes CH4. You'd need to convert it at about 300degC with a catalyst (so that takes lots of energy). Then the byproduct would be CO, whilst that isn't a bad direct greenhouse gas it interact with hydroxyl radicals in the atmosphere. Hydoxyls ineract with other greenhouse gases to reduce their power, so it would have no net effect, if anything it could be worse. Just combust the CH4 directl…

You would take the resulting CH₄ and split off the hydrogen using pyrolysis and put that in the car. Which is likely how you would get the H₂ to feed the Sabatier reaction in the first place, from CH₄ out of the ground. I don't know what is sillier, this or hydrolysis of water.

I suppose the benefit of removing and adding and removing carbon again would be that at each removal step you end up with a pile of solid carbon that you can put in a landfill. But I'm always wary of schemes to spend energy to sequester carbon, even if it is renewable energy. That's energy you probably could have used to greater effect elsewhere, like charging an electric car or supplanting a coal power plant.

Re: Hilton's 1967 plan for a space hotel

#77

Post by JKCalhoun »

mattowen_uk wrote: post #19
JKCalhoun wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would a manned Mars mission really have been feasible? Is it feasible now? I have no idea, myself. The shuttle might have been fine if it weren't twisted into the boxcar-like thing the Air Force insisted upon. And if the other parts came along with it: space tug, lunar-orbiting station, etc. Instead we got a starter salad and then were shown the door. Perhaps it was a lack of money. The U.S. worrying so much about (S…

> Would a manned Mars mission I think you mean 'crewed Mars mission'.

I'm showing my age, I hope not any bias.
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