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House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

cicilline.house.gov

211–220 of 226 posts

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#211
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing in my list that could even remotely be a barrier to entry would be the additional requirements of official government communications, which IMO would be a good thing because I dont think there should be any official government communications happening on any of these platforms in the first place.

Your ToS processes will be perfect for keeping companies out that aren't already affiliated with a big tech and using their legal.

I see no way that would be true, for example there should be no problem with a video platform telling a user that "Your Video @ 22:50 violated Section 5 of our TOS"

I am unclear how that would that would add a barrier to entry.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#212
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ToS processes will be perfect for keeping companies out that aren't already affiliated with a big tech and using their legal.

I see no way that would be true, for example there should be no problem with a video platform telling a user that "Your Video @ 22:50 violated Section 5 of our TOS" I am unclear how that would that would add a barrier to entry.

Great, now if you are YouTube, that will cost 100m to automate, you won't notice this cost. If you are Vimeo you either declare bankruptcy or have more semi-manual processes to implement the same eating your slim profits each quarter and further limiting the competitiveness of offers you can make.

Your arguments are largely similar to putting regulations on a Telco monopoly to give a little back as if there were competition. We know how that works, it doesn't address the problem and certainly doesn't make competition appear.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#213
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not exactly sure what you are trying to prove here. As far as I am concerned, Google and Facebook have not been broken up into pieces of YouTube and Instagram yet. How does this in any way demonstrate what would happen if we broke up big tech? Sounds like further evidence they need to be released from their mismanagement.

You said: > I cannot see how YouTube or Instagram could suffer or lose market share. The references I shared make it very clear that Instagram is losing market share. Not sure why those dots were difficult to connect. Moving on to your next point: > Sounds like further evidence they need to be released from their mismanagement. It's interesting you said that. Obviously a lot of people are in favor of breaking up Face…

> The references I shared make it very clear that Instagram is losing market share. Not sure why those dots were difficult to connect.

I said that in the context of breaking up G/FB. Why isolate that sentence for no apparent reason? It was a very short comment.

> It's interesting you said that. Obviously a lot of people are in favor of breaking up Facebook from Instagram, but my guess was that it was always for antitrust concerns. More recently, I started to sense that an additional flavor has entered this conversation recently, something like "Facebook and Instagram would be better products if they were run by independent companies."

There is no additional flavor. Ask yourself why we bother about antitrust. It is to raise the level of competition. Do you believe innovation is best nurtured in a competitive environment? Literally, the title of the bill consists the words a "stronger online economy", for "innovation".

Pooling all your resources into ads targeting because you are comfortably sitting in a dominant position is exactly the problem. YouTube and Instagram with independent leadership would have the flexibility to focus on their market -- image/video media. That is why TikTok and Snapchat were able to catch Instagram with their pants down -- Facebook had no idea alternative forms media (and did not care) was possible and were simply focused on milking their existing platform. Better ads targeting does not bring in users, and market share is driven by users, not ads. Why does it matter if it increases their cost of operation and slows down their rate of development if the majority of their development is focused on ads targeting - an ineffective user growth strategy? The blame lies on nobody but Facebook or Google if their products have been losing marketshare in 2021.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#214
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no way that would be true, for example there should be no problem with a video platform telling a user that "Your Video @ 22:50 violated Section 5 of our TOS" I am unclear how that would that would add a barrier to entry.

Great, now if you are YouTube, that will cost 100m to automate, you won't notice this cost. If you are Vimeo you either declare bankruptcy or have more semi-manual processes to implement the same eating your slim profits each quarter and further limiting the competitiveness of offers you can make. Your arguments are largely similar to putting regulations on a Telco monopoly to give a little back as if there were comp…

It does not cost anything extra, if you are moderating content then you already have viewed and analyzed the content in some way either human, crowdsource, or automated review. The data is already there, the requirement is this data be provided to the user not hidden which is how it done today.

So again I fail to see how requiring a company to disclose to the user the exact reasons for their ban adds any additional burden on anyone. The company already knows the reasons, it simply refused to tell anyone under today's model

I think you have confused my statement with some kind of mandatory moderation scheme.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#215
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said: > I cannot see how YouTube or Instagram could suffer or lose market share. The references I shared make it very clear that Instagram is losing market share. Not sure why those dots were difficult to connect. Moving on to your next point: > Sounds like further evidence they need to be released from their mismanagement. It's interesting you said that. Obviously a lot of people are in favor of breaking up Face…

> The references I shared make it very clear that Instagram is losing market share. Not sure why those dots were difficult to connect. I said that in the context of breaking up G/FB. Why isolate that sentence for no apparent reason? It was a very short comment. > It's interesting you said that. Obviously a lot of people are in favor of breaking up Facebook from Instagram, but my guess was that it was always for antit…

Ok, I might finally understand you now. It appears you're agreeing with me that Instagram is losing market share, but you're adding the caveat that this wouldn't be the case if it operated as a stand-alone company. We're agreeing that as a stand-alone company it would take longer to develop features and it would cost it more money to do so, but your argument is that the features would have a better PMF.

The part we're disagreeing on is the root cause of the fact that Snapchat and Tik Tok managed to out-innovate Facebook (which is very similar to the root cause of what Facebook initially out-innovated Google). You're thinking that it's because Facebook was focused for too long on milking the platform, and I agree with that, but I don't think it's the root cause. The root cause in my opinion is that Facebook became a public company, and now it needs to chase quarterly results or the stock price will fall and its top talent will leave. The same thing happened with Google back in the day. If you were to spin off Instagram, it would still be a public company and it would still have the same boundary conditions on innovation that it has today - quarterly results.

In other words, my thesis is very simple - once a company goes public, you cannot expect it to be a leader in innovation anymore [1][2]. But don't cry for public companies - when one door closes, another one opens; public companies can very well continue to grow by acquiring innovation and market share, which is what happened with Facebook and countless other examples. But... M&A becomes easier when you have a balance sheet with a lot of zeroes on it. If you were to break up Facebook, the individual companies would have a smaller M&A budget, and that would weaken their sharpest weapon they have at this time.

[1] I interviewed at Facebook pre-IPO and met about a dozen of their top PM stakeholders back at the time, including the current CPO. As you would expect, the strength of that talent was just insanely good. Of those people, only Chris Cox is still there, but even he decided to leave for a while. At the end of the day, people are too motivated by money, and it hurts in two ways: those who have it are no longer working as hard, and those who don't have it can make more of it at pre-IPO companies.

[2] Google deserves a lot of praise for trying to escape that fate with with their efforts with X - Vaymo may or may not end up generating cash, but either way, my hat's off to them. Even so, X highlights another problem with innovation at a megacorp - unless your idea has a clear potential of being a 100 billion dollar company, it's not worth pursuing it since it won't make enough of a difference for someone with AdWords on their balance sheet. In contrast, there's plenty of VC to be raised as a startup seemingly trying to become a 1 billion dollar company and then eventually discovering that it can go further than that.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#216
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is new to me, so let's confirm just to be sure: US regulators have stopped non-US companies from acquiring other non-US companies? How would that even be regulated, purely logistically? A non-US company doesn't have to report to the US regulators any part of its non-US business.

If a business does business in the US then the US can (and does) make laws demanding reporting of corporate ownership. This is usually done as part of tax law. See for example https://www.internationallawoffice.com/Newsletters/Private-C... A specific example of this kind of action: In 2016 the Obama administration block the Dutch Phillips company from selling (Dutch) Lumiled to Chinese investment companies. More rece…

This is really informative and helpful, thank you for taking the time to share! Interesting that they use the tax law as the hook. It certainly makes me feel a lot better about our chances of staying competitive.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#217
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, now if you are YouTube, that will cost 100m to automate, you won't notice this cost. If you are Vimeo you either declare bankruptcy or have more semi-manual processes to implement the same eating your slim profits each quarter and further limiting the competitiveness of offers you can make. Your arguments are largely similar to putting regulations on a Telco monopoly to give a little back as if there were comp…

It does not cost anything extra, if you are moderating content then you already have viewed and analyzed the content in some way either human, crowdsource, or automated review. The data is already there, the requirement is this data be provided to the user not hidden which is how it done today. So again I fail to see how requiring a company to disclose to the user the exact reasons for their ban adds any additional b…

I'm baffled that you got downvoted. Saying what rule someone broke when punishing them would cost millions of dollars??

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>when people talk about CRT these days they’re talking about a specific set of beliefs about race, notably a variety of race essentialist beliefs. Critical race theory and Race essentialism are fundamentally incompatible theories of race. If you're equating the two, you, or whoever presented them to you, has a deeply flawed (or actively malicious) understand of one or the other. CRT posits that differences among raci…

> Critical race theory and Race essentialism are fundamentally incompatible theories of race. If you're equating the two, you, or whoever presented them to you, has a deeply flawed (or actively malicious) understand of one or the other. I knew someone was going to be pedantic which is why I phrased it as I did. The term is becoming overloaded, and we can either debate semantics or we can engage substantially and I’m…

> The term is becoming overloaded

No it's not. This bad version you imagine isn't being taught to anyone.

> and we can either debate semantics or we can engage substantially and I’m choosing the latter.

It's not "semantics" to talk about what is actually happening and being complained about.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standard Oil is also a special case because a monopoly on the supply of environmentally harmful stuff is actually good for the environment - by the very action of charging a higher price, it helps compensate for a negative effect that would not be priced in otherwise. Breaking up Standard Oil was just a bad idea, all around.

> by the very action of charging a higher price, it helps compensate for a negative effect that would not be priced in otherwise that is charitable interpretation to say the least.. Once monopoly revenue is passing hands, who is to say that safety, service and responsible behavior strengthens? There are manifold examples of a whole range of outcomes. A defense of oil monopoly markets is particulalry distasteful in li…

> Once monopoly revenue is passing hands, who is to say that safety, service and responsible behavior strengthens?

True, that could go bad.

> A defense of oil monopoly markets is particulalry distasteful in light of a global, literal crisis due to oil consumption by the billions of barrels, right?

Huh? Did you miss the point entirely? They're saying that a monopoly reduces the number of barrels, which reduces the crisis. What's distasteful about that specific part of the picture?

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#220

I wonder if this an inadvertent dark pattern used by Congress. Doesn’t this fundamentally set up lobbying infrastructure? You set up a racket where you start regulating a business, then said business reacts by funding massive lobbying toolkits to buy the crooks in Congress off to curtail regulation.

The general problem is called "regulatory capture", though that's a specific case of the principle-agent problem, which also affects private organisations / businesses.

Generally the solution is checks & balances, oversight, you cut / I choose, and similar mechanisms. (Off the top of my head, there may be others.)

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