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The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

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Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#191

Post by m463 »

cptskippy wrote: post #139
m463 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a purism owner, and a long-time linux user... I think that is a fantasy statement. Theoretically, there could be an open platform like the PC (with usb + pcie + ATX case/power supply + etc..) with open interfaces. However the reason this came into existence was by microsoft's design to commoditize the hardware to drive software sales of its (closed) operating system. With cellphones all of those interfaces are bei…

> However the reason this came into existence was by microsoft's design to commoditize the hardware to drive software sales of its (closed) operating system. Couldn't get past your rewriting of history just to paint MS in bad light because you don't like them.

I was not putting down microsoft, I think they did the world a favor by bringing us commodity hardware.

fun article:

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#193

Post by m463 »

canucker2016 wrote: post #188
m463 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a purism owner, and a long-time linux user... I think that is a fantasy statement. Theoretically, there could be an open platform like the PC (with usb + pcie + ATX case/power supply + etc..) with open interfaces. However the reason this came into existence was by microsoft's design to commoditize the hardware to drive software sales of its (closed) operating system. With cellphones all of those interfaces are bei…

> ...However the reason this came into existence was by microsoft's design to commoditize the hardware to drive software sales of its (closed) operating system. Don't make the tail wag the dog. IBM was in control of the hardware design and the rest of the ecosystem, heavily influenced by their previous work on the IBM System/23 DataMaster. Microsoft just jumped on board for the expected lucrative ride, supplying a CP…

IBM designed the original ISA bus PC. But with microsoft's non-exclusive agreement it was able to sell MS-DOS, and it kickstarted early clones like compaq. IBM tried to close things down with the PS/2 OS/2 and microchannel, but they couldn't close the barn door.

here's another fun article: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#194

Post by canucker2016 »

m463 wrote: post #193
canucker2016 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...However the reason this came into existence was by microsoft's design to commoditize the hardware to drive software sales of its (closed) operating system. Don't make the tail wag the dog. IBM was in control of the hardware design and the rest of the ecosystem, heavily influenced by their previous work on the IBM System/23 DataMaster. Microsoft just jumped on board for the expected lucrative ride, supplying a CP…

IBM designed the original ISA bus PC. But with microsoft's non-exclusive agreement it was able to sell MS-DOS, and it kickstarted early clones like compaq. IBM tried to close things down with the PS/2 OS/2 and microchannel, but they couldn't close the barn door. here's another fun article: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/

Besides a license for MSDOS, the PC clone makers also needed a compatible BIOS. Compaq was the first out of the gate with a mostly-compatible IBM PC BIOS.

The IBM PC-compatible BIOS from Phoenix Technologies allowed more companies to jump in the PC clone wars.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/how-compaqs-clone-comp...

https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-BIOS-for-a-computer-motherb...

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#195

Post by npteljes »

lmm wrote: post #165
new_realist wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the kernel is a commodity. Whether it's Linux or Mach, the user can't tell the difference. It's just plumbing.

The whole phone will be a commodity soon if it's not already. When was the last time something felt like a significant innovation/differentiator in a phone? (Personally I haven't been excited about a new phone feature since the S7's notification LED - and that apparently wasn't important enough to keep in newer versions).

Cameras and the accompanying image processing software have been getting exceptionally good. Not that I'm personally excited about these, but I think it deserves recognition.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#196

Post by lmm »

npteljes wrote: post #195
lmm wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole phone will be a commodity soon if it's not already. When was the last time something felt like a significant innovation/differentiator in a phone? (Personally I haven't been excited about a new phone feature since the S7's notification LED - and that apparently wasn't important enough to keep in newer versions).

Cameras and the accompanying image processing software have been getting exceptionally good. Not that I'm personally excited about these, but I think it deserves recognition.

Meh. I took some photos with a 10-year-old digicam a couple of weeks ago and it was much the same "marginally nicer than my phone" experience that it was when phones started getting cameras. Thank goodness I could get away from that horrible fake bokeh that recent phones do. I will admit that HDR support can be pretty nice.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#197

Post by noduerme »

squarefoot wrote: post #55

One point that should be repeated ad infinitum for those reading about the Pinephone for the 1st time: it's all about the freedom, not performance. One doesn't buy the Pinephone to brag about its technical achievements with friends, but rather to contribute building an ecosystem, even just by spreading the word, of people who put freedom and privacy above everything. I also should be repeated ad infinitum why its har…

So currently, it's a couple days after police and intelligence agencies worldwide raided the owners of ANOM-using phones that were allegedly private and built to exclude common hardware/software that's used for tracking. I'm not saying the governments of the world were wrong to bring those people down. But do you really expect anyone to buy a phone - with any combination of hardware and software - and retain any expectation of privacy whatsoever? Am I paranoid to think that this sounds like a continuation of the ANOM project... selling a supposedly secure, home brew and private device to the gullible who desperately want a secure channel?

Here's a secure channel: Dump your phone. There's no personal security with a device like that if you live in a state that might use your affiliations against you.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#198

Post by noduerme »

goodpoint wrote: post #155
new_realist wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the kernel is a commodity. Whether it's Linux or Mach, the user can't tell the difference. It's just plumbing.

This can be also phrased as: software freedom does not reach the end user. That's why GPL and AGPL exist.

it certainly touches the end user the moment they try to use the device for productivity and realize where the walls of the garden were established. But at that point maybe they're not a "user" anymore.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#199

Post by npteljes »

lmm wrote: post #196
npteljes wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameras and the accompanying image processing software have been getting exceptionally good. Not that I'm personally excited about these, but I think it deserves recognition.

Meh. I took some photos with a 10-year-old digicam a couple of weeks ago and it was much the same "marginally nicer than my phone" experience that it was when phones started getting cameras. Thank goodness I could get away from that horrible fake bokeh that recent phones do. I will admit that HDR support can be pretty nice.

Low light performance is also very nice in some phones. But what I'd like to emphasize is how automatic it all is. Surely someone with an entry level DSLR and a bit of Lightroom know-how can outperform an iPhone 11, but it's work to carry it around and apply the postprocessing afterwards, while on the phone it's just a few taps. So what I'd like to say is that it's not an achievement in imaging, but a big leap forward in automation.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#200

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

jokoon wrote: post #186
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the problem is that Android is open source in concept and name only, not in practice: Code is developed in the dark, and then published later, it's not a collaborative environment. And the important part is that Google fully controls what direction Android development moves in. So they're going to design it to advantage themselves and disadvantage others. So the first problem with that is that the work to remove…

> So they're going to design it to advantage themselves and disadvantage others. How so? > you can't really "just fork it" without losing the main perk of running Android: Running Android apps. > As it is, most Android apps won't work on a device without Google Play Services Most, so you mean it's still possible to not depend on google play services. Although of course, app developers will always prefer the play stor…

> What do you mean? All phone have GPS chips, they don't depend on google for that.

In many everyday instances, the phone won't quickly get a signal from GPS satellites, rather it relies on network-assisted GPS. Even the open-source Android distribution (AOSP) uses Google's servers. It used to be straightforward for phone owners to switch to a different location assistance service like Mozilla's just by installing from F-Droid and then changing a setting. However, in a subsequent Android version Google made a change to require location-assistance services to be installed as a system package, not a user package. That requires connecting to the phone over ADB and using the shell, which means that only a tiny, tiny minority of techies will ever do it. That is just one example of how, over time, Google has made design changes to Android to benefit itself at the expense of privacy and competition.

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