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There is no Jake Frink

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11–20 of 52 posts

Re: There is no Jake Frink

#12
post #4

I've been using Teevox (Warp Prism) since the first version was released on Reddit. For those unfamiliar, it is a web application that provides a convenient interface to watch the video streams of professional Starcraft players. It was marketed as the effort of a single developer, a labor of love. Donations were solicited to that effect and I'll admit I was taken in by the whole thing. The narrative was appealing to…

They were taking donations in the name of a fake person? At first it sounded like they just got caught doing a harmless marketing ploy, but if they were taking donations, that's way worse.

Re: There is no Jake Frink

#13
OK, so this is the second time in a week I'm going to have to post this PG quote: "Your comment is a classic instance of people on a forum rushing to judgment based on incomplete information. It's isomorphic to the sort of thing one sees on reddit, except that it's about startups rather than the federal government or international bankers."

Edit: it looks like Jiggity (aka Jong-Moon Kim, Warp Prism's creator) has gone and posted a lot more details here: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no...

If he's come forward and put all the details on the record, I feel comfortable putting a lot more details here, along with my own commentary on the whole mess.

Jiggity was indeed a co-founder of Teevox, which was in last summer's YC batch. He and Andrew were one always one of the most energetic, technically impressive, and just fun-to-be-around founders in the batch. Seriously, one of the bright spots of weekly dinners was always the corner of the orange room where the Teevox demo was set up each week, greeting passerby with equal parts cheeriness from the founders and magic from the slick Hulu demo.

Which is why it was so heartbreaking when Teevox was one of the first startups in YC S10 to die. It was a sober reminder to everyone that coming up with a clever product just isn't always enough, and we're all in a low-success-rate business.

In any case, Teevox is gone. Dead. Kaput. No longer there. Corporate entity unraveled. It happens to startups. People who spend time here should know that, even though the reddit posters cluelessly assume that Teevox lives on with a team of coders and a "slick marketing team".

Andrew went back to school but Jiggity decided to keep on plugging away at some side projects. One of them turned into Warp Prism. I think that this is fucking awesome. In fact, it's pretty much the classic startup feel-good turnaround story: smart hacker down on his luck, has a startup shut down and fail, keeps on hacking away and eventually stumbles upon something people love to use. He keeps on iterating on the product, out0executing a similar competitor all by himself. (one of the posters in the linked thread said s/he was always suspicious that WarpPrism could ever have been built by one person!) Awesome! This is the classic inspirational never-give-up narrative in action.

Except in this case, some moron hiding behind an anonymous pseudonym does a simple whois search, discovers that the domain is registered to the same guy who happend to found a startup the year before and - gasp - concludes that s/he's unearthed the scandal of a century! WarpPrism can't be the work of a lone hacker, it must have a whole "slick marketing team" behind it! Angry reddit mob, enter stage left!

I do not know why Jiggity chose the name "Jake Frink". (In retrospect, isn't that um, sort of obviously a pseudonym?) I do know that Jiggity has previously used various aliases in everyday conversation, and rarely his real name. But the reality is, aside from that one name, every other detail of the original story is true.

Why was everyone so quick to rush to judgement? Is it a reflexive distrust of anything that might be backed by a company? Is it a predisposition to believe in a made-up but apparently widely perceived trend that, in the words of another poster, "the newer YC bunch are playing dirty to win"?

In any case, this time it makes me upset. It's one thing if people mis-read a boilerplate line in the Dropbox ToS and decide to get angry over that; Dropbox is doing well and will be fine, internet mob or not. But this is different. This is not a large successful company, it's just a friend who has bravely marched straight through the hell that every startup founder has nightmares about. but the one that is never far from my mind when it's racing late at night - the idea that all your hard work will eventually evaporate.

I went through that period once when my first startup died four years ago, and it put me into a rather severe months-long depression. Thankfully my current startup is doing quite well, but the memory of what happened before and the gnawing fear it could happen again is never far from my consciousness late at night when my mind is racing and I have trouble falling asleep. I think pretty much every founder feels the same way all the way until (at least) the liquidity event. It's a special kind of overbearing stress that only other founders can truly understand.

Jiggity pushed right through that, and created a kickass product people loved using. The three months after my first startup died I spent mostly half-heartedly applying for jobs and walking around the streets of Palo Alto in sort of a daze; Jiggity spent that time single-handedly creating the best way to watch StarCraft 2 games in the world. And when those users find out, that gasp, the creator of the product they love so much was using a pseudonym - this is how they react.

I advise everyone who reads Hacker News and is thinking of one day starting a company to think of Jiggity's story as inspirational, and the reaction to it as a warning. In the end though, despite the fact that I was moved to post this long rant, I know he'll get through it just fine. He's thrived after going through much worse.

Re: There is no Jake Frink

#14
post #13

OK, so this is the second time in a week I'm going to have to post this PG quote: "Your comment is a classic instance of people on a forum rushing to judgment based on incomplete information. It's isomorphic to the sort of thing one sees on reddit, except that it's about startups rather than the federal government or international bankers." Edit: it looks like Jiggity (aka Jong-Moon Kim, Warp Prism's creator) has gon…

This looks pretty cut and dried, frankly. If it's not, will the real Jake Frink please stand up?

From this[1] thread exchange, jakefrink is still keeping up the guise of the poor, trodden developer working his ass off for the community. This is either genuine and there's been a mistake, or Teevox guys are delusional and too caught up in their own web of lies.

edit: After reading your long edit, it looks like it was case number 1 and the story is genuine. You know much more about the background of this story and I sincerely apologize to Jiggity for the uproar and frenzy I caused. It was unnecessary and in hindsight really silly. Perhaps Jiggity/jakefrink can post a full update of what happened on /r/starcraft to explain with a link to this comment of yours and redeem himself and his awesome site. You have been wronged Jiggity.

[1] http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/im6r4/there_is_no...

Re: There is no Jake Frink

#15
So I have a friend. For the purpose of this post, I'm going to call him Hideyuki Chikafuji. That isn't his name, but it gives the right sort of feel. He works as a well-paid professional in an industry which isn't investment banking, but could be. He has a degree from Northwestern in, well, let's call it Physics. Magna cum laude.

What question do you think he gets asked in every job interview? If your answer was "Do you even speak English?", you win a gold star.

Hideyuki recently got his first name legally changed to Frank. Whammo. No more awkward questions.

I would further note that there is at least one person widely respected on HN who does business under a name which is not their birth name, specifically to avoid pervasive problems with this issue in our industry. (His story is not mine to tell.) The practice is also endemic in journalism, acting, etc etc etc.

It probably isn't the only issue: Redditors are nortoriously anti-capitalist, too, so it's much more convenient to be a community-minded hobbyist developer than to be a corporation (gasp!) with investors (gasp!) and hundreds of thousands of dollars (gasp!).

P.S. If race is totally not an issue, it would be a wee bit instructive that people get so pissed of when someone pretends to be a white guy.

Re: There is no Jake Frink

#16
post #12
post #4

I've been using Teevox (Warp Prism) since the first version was released on Reddit. For those unfamiliar, it is a web application that provides a convenient interface to watch the video streams of professional Starcraft players. It was marketed as the effort of a single developer, a labor of love. Donations were solicited to that effect and I'll admit I was taken in by the whole thing. The narrative was appealing to…

They were taking donations in the name of a fake person? At first it sounded like they just got caught doing a harmless marketing ploy, but if they were taking donations, that's way worse.

Nothing is confirmed yet, so I'd be careful about jumping the gun. What is true is that the first version of Warp Prism was released by a guy named Jake Frink. He claimed it was his solo project and it was his way of giving back to the community. There was a lot of interaction with Jake on Reddit. Personally I found it really cool. People gave him feedback on Warp Prism and bug fixes and features were put out on a rolling basis based on community feedback. I guess the issue being brought up now is that Reddit suspects Jake is a fake narrative, essentially a marketing strategy for a company. And yeah, there was a donation button on the initial versions of the site.

I personally don't have a problem with some guys making money off of a product like Warp Prism. I'd pay a monthly subscription for it. But what would be an issue for me is if a story was fabricated in order to market the product. But like I said, lets not jump the gun here until we get both sides of the story.

Re: There is no Jake Frink

#18
Gamers can be really sensitive to this stuff. Most games are easy to pirate, and game communities tend to grow out of faith in the developers and a desire to be "included" in their story, at a level beyond the typical customer relationship. Add to that the fact that gamers are usually pretty smart and motivated, and you set yourself up for a shitstorm if there's a hint of betrayal.

In this instance, the company received _donations_. That is one serious perversion of karma.

Re: There is no Jake Frink

#19
post #15

So I have a friend. For the purpose of this post, I'm going to call him Hideyuki Chikafuji. That isn't his name, but it gives the right sort of feel. He works as a well-paid professional in an industry which isn't investment banking, but could be. He has a degree from Northwestern in, well, let's call it Physics. Magna cum laude. What question do you think he gets asked in every job interview? If your answer was "Do…

I think you're mistaken about the issue at hand here, patio11. This has nothing to do with being anti-capitalist or having an Asian sounding name.

This has to do with lying to the community about your story, playing up the good parts and running under a false narrative for no good reason. As pointed out in the linked thread, a competitor to Teevox, WellPlayed.tv has been completely transparent about the fact that it's a company that runs it, not some unemployed dude fantasy, it lists the exact users who represent it, and doesn't do things like violate Paypal TOS and solicit donations under a false name for a corporation. Also, this is not OSS Teevox is peddling here. They were actively receiving funds for profit and nothing was Open Source about it in the least.

Re: There is no Jake Frink

#20
post #15

So I have a friend. For the purpose of this post, I'm going to call him Hideyuki Chikafuji. That isn't his name, but it gives the right sort of feel. He works as a well-paid professional in an industry which isn't investment banking, but could be. He has a degree from Northwestern in, well, let's call it Physics. Magna cum laude. What question do you think he gets asked in every job interview? If your answer was "Do…

I'd be thrilled if what you describe is what happened here. All it would take I think would be the actual developer speaking up and clarifying. However, the situation does have the potential to be a bit more complex. If Warp Prism was a commercial venture from the start, I think people will have a problem with that. It was marketed as the effort of a community-minded developer who was soliciting donations. If such marketing was a scam, clearly it was being done to play on the personality quirks of Reddit that you describe.

It's also a mistake to assume that Starcraft fans of Reddit have have a problem with for profit companies; they don't. The entire former moderation staff started a for-profit company (http://wellplayed.org) and they are still on great terms with the community. I think the problem alleged here is the misleading marketing. We just need to wait and get some clarifying remarks from the developers of Warp Prism in order to determine what has actually happened.

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