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Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

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Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#221

Post by spywaregorilla »

dsyrk wrote: post #201
leesalminen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Why employ people you don’t trust? It sounds very tiring. I certainly don’t have time for it running a successful, fast-growing company. I’ve employed people before who eroded my trust in them. I either fired them or nudged them to find a new job, depending on the severity of the thing they did to make me not trust them.

You must be fairly young and idealistic. It’s really hard to know people well enough to be able to trust them. Especially in this new WFH environment are you going to know your employees after a few skype calls? I’ve been in tech for over 25 years now and a manager for last 15, the level of deceit one comes across is mind blowing. In one case we had an employee we all liked and thought well of, did decent work, extre…

You must be a tropey children's story villain who doesn't understand he power of friendship

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePowerOfFriend...

Your one employee betraying your trust does not justify treating the rest of your employees this way

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#222

Post by sam0x17 »

dsyrk wrote: post #94
leesalminen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? I would never, ever consider doing that to my employees. It’s plainly obvious if someone is doing their work or not without tracking their mouse movements. What’s the name of your company so I can tell everyone I know to avoid it like the plague? My company is gingrapp.com. We’re hiring and would never subject anyone to this.

I can see you must be a sharp knife. I conceal my surveillance from my employees but I should tell you the name of my company so you can tell them?

This is actually illegal, and the information you have provided is enough to get a search warrant in the U.S. I have forwarded this thread to my local FBI field office. Have a nice day :)

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#223

Post by bryan_w »

bradlys wrote: post #190
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #4

By “quitting” they mostly mean getting new jobs or career changes. Not necessarily refusing to work in an office. The headline is misleading. It’s also still a relatively small number in absolute terms: > In April, the share of U.S. workers leaving jobs was 2.7%, according to the Labor Department, a jump from 1.6% a year earlier to the highest level since at least 2000. The higher turnover is expected in a booming ec…

Seems most commenters on HN for this thread didn’t read the article. We’re at a daily occurrence now of these “I can never go back to the office” threads. I thought HN was supposed to be an area of intellectual stimulation - not droning on about the same thing for months with no end.

I use to think the same thing, but it seems that HN is both the place where there are cool technical articles and where journalists can pump their tech-clickbait.

I wish there was an easy solution.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#224

Post by doctor_eval »

dcow wrote: post #64
xvector wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll have a new job. They can do what they want. Hiring fresh H1B employees to replace seasoned engineers rarely ends well. It’s part of the reason we get paid as much as we do. If I end up leaving because the company refuses to offer WFH, it won’t be getting a 2-week notice or any form of knowledge transfer from me.

I hear the thing these days is to see how long your former employer will pay you before realizing you aren't doing any work for them anymore. It sounds like a joke but I’ve seen it happen on multiple occasions. Coworker just stops showing up and 5 months later their Slack is deactivated.

I’m not denying this happens but if they aren’t missed by their coworkers - who would presumably take the brunt of the work of the missing employee - then they weren’t really contributing. Plus, there’s something terribly wrong with a company that doesn’t notice this. And in Australia at least, the employee would probably end up having to repay their wages.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#225

Post by 1shooner »

crummy wrote: post #210
tolbish wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the "I like the office and everyone else should too because it legitimizes and popularizes my choices" crowd will never say that out loud so you don't know which arguments are in earnest.

Well, probably a lot of "I like the office" implies "... because I like being around my coworkers" and that obviously falls apart if you're the only one.

And if the feeling wasn't reciprocated, maybe that's for the best.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#226

Post by protomyth »

d110af5ccf wrote: post #186
xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

> ... the extremely rare spark of whiteboard innovation is not worth ... Crazy idea - install a whiteboard at home and point a 4k camera at it. The broke college student version of this involves a pen, paper, and the camera on your cellphone; it works quite well.

Not so crazy. I've been looking for whiteboards (well, smart boards) with hdmi out or just using a camera for instructor at home use. A Black Magic Design ATEM allows for multiple inputs and use on Zoom as a web cam. We did buy an overhead web cam specifically for our beadwork instructor do she could show closeups of her working hands free.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#227

Post by theli0nheart »

forz877 wrote: post #181
theli0nheart wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it’s your choice if you don’t want to meet up with your team. Lunch or coffee probably won’t be forbidden by company policy.

Not really true is it? WFH can mean I'm in Seattle and you're in San Diego. Not exactly a quick trip to the local cafe.

What you're describing seems more like a remote gig. I don't read WFM and remote as the same thing. Remote is WFM but WFM is not necessarily remote. You can have an in-office job that's WFM for 4 days per week, but that's not remote.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#228

Post by dsyrk »

sam0x17 wrote: post #222
dsyrk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see you must be a sharp knife. I conceal my surveillance from my employees but I should tell you the name of my company so you can tell them?

This is actually illegal, and the information you have provided is enough to get a search warrant in the U.S. I have forwarded this thread to my local FBI field office. Have a nice day :)

Please do explain. What is illegal? Recording minute granular measure of keyboard and mouse activity by employees on our internal company computer system. You’re in a fantasy world, the FBI is literally laughing at you right now.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#229

Post by bsder »

endymi0n wrote: post #15
xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

I hear this a lot of times recently — what I'm interested by now is where the new equilibrium will be going forward. So far us software engineers have often seen jobs as replaceable and we know we'll have another one at the snip of a finger should we quit. But with enough people actually quitting, how many remote or soon-remote companies will there be to scoop up the supply until quitting an office job cold could be…

> So far us software engineers have often seen jobs as replaceable and we know we'll have another one at the snip of a finger should we quit.

I think this is going to be the thing that cracks.

If everybody is WFH, I probably don't need YOU specifically. Programmers are about to get a big wake up call as to what their value actually is in the global market--and it's a lot less than they think.

If I were a particularly nasty manager, I would be pushing WFH like crazy and looking at laying off both my most expensive and most vocal WFH people in 18 months.

The most senior folk pulling the strings will survive. The rank and file will get decimated.

Be careful what you wish for.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#230

Post by eric-hu »

dheera wrote: post #65
xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

Personally I look forward to hybrid but where I decide when to go in to the office as needed to get work done. Probably that would mean 2-3 days a week for me, given the kind of engineering work I do. I'm actually tired of staying home all day every day because of work. I actually kind of enjoy "going somewhere" for the day, seeing the sun rise, smelling the fresh bread and coffee as I pass the bakery, seeing restaur…

It sounds like it would suit your needs to work remotely from a rented office desk. It sounds like it’s not as big an issue for you since you’re a few stations from work, but it also sounds like the work office doesn’t afford you much over many other offices.
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