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“YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

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Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the content creator viewpoint, I concede the landscape is much different. But again, is “user-uploaded videos with ads” what we are really talking about? They can sell their own ads and roll their own hosting quite easily. What you really mean is “user-uploaded videos with ads with the reach of YouTube” but of course there’s only one #1 user-uploaded video website.

> but of course there’s only one #1 user-uploaded video website. That comment makes the issue sound a lot more slippery and ill-defined than it really is. If you're a small content creator, YouTube is your only option. It is actually quite simple; you don't have any plausible way to get people on your website, you won't get any views on Vimeo and you can't monetize it there, and Tiktok won't work unless you're runnin…

> you don’t have any plausible way to get people on your website

Again, you mean “instantaneous access to millions of people who like to go to YouTube”. A website for $5/month opens you to more people than YouTube. If 3Blue1Brown has decided YouTube is best for them, then that’s great. But

> monopoly on “doing business with 3Blue1Brown.”

Sounds just as silly as Universal Pictures having a monopoly on movie series that involve bad acting and fast cars.

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the implicit assumption here that people are too stupid or irresponsible to handle hearing information & coming to their own conclusion on it? At risk of being flippant, have you been on Facebook lately at all in the past 5-6 years?

So the solution is to censor what information is ok for the plebs to see and what is too ideologically harmful for them? This is a very condescending and authoritarian position that I would hope those of us who care about free discourse would eschew.

> So the solution is to censor what information is ok for the plebs to see and what is too ideologically harmful for them?

I'm not saying that.

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but of course there’s only one #1 user-uploaded video website. That comment makes the issue sound a lot more slippery and ill-defined than it really is. If you're a small content creator, YouTube is your only option. It is actually quite simple; you don't have any plausible way to get people on your website, you won't get any views on Vimeo and you can't monetize it there, and Tiktok won't work unless you're runnin…

> you don’t have any plausible way to get people on your website Again, you mean “instantaneous access to millions of people who like to go to YouTube”. A website for $5/month opens you to more people than YouTube. If 3Blue1Brown has decided YouTube is best for them, then that’s great. But > monopoly on “doing business with 3Blue1Brown.” Sounds just as silly as Universal Pictures having a monopoly on movie series tha…

If you want to sell a script, you have Universal, WB, Netflix, I mean, I'm not in the industry, but it's a pretty long list. Every time another industry is brought up we quickly find that a person wanting to do business there has several major, practical routes to choose from. Wanting to make 12-60 minute videos for a living from a starting point of no budget or clout? YouTube is the only option. That's very strange from the perspective of every other industry or even other segments of the same industry. It's not normal for there to only be one business that you have any practical chance of succeeding with.

If it starts looking complicated, just take it back down to the specifics. If you are H3H3, you have no other options. You either do business with YouTube or do some other kind of business. That's the end of the story, and kind of weird, because there aren't any other absolute monopolies like that. For example, hosting a donate button is a practical alternative to Patreon.

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the implicit assumption here that people are too stupid or irresponsible to handle hearing information & coming to their own conclusion on it? At risk of being flippant, have you been on Facebook lately at all in the past 5-6 years?

So the solution is to censor what information is ok for the plebs to see and what is too ideologically harmful for them? This is a very condescending and authoritarian position that I would hope those of us who care about free discourse would eschew.

“If there be time to expose through discussion, the falsehoods and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence.”

"The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it."

Is free discourse about being free from consequences? Is it about equal representation/distribution? I am curious about ideological harm when compared to things like offering legal or medical advice.

What does a private company/platform have to do with censorship? Why does a private company/platform need to represent and publish all ideological viewpoints, and what is that company’s responsibility to free discourse?

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else should scientists do than challenging the status quo? Sure, and I rather suspect there are all sorts of venues that scientists could use to communicate scientific reasons challenging the status quo, ones in which there'd be a process of discourse with other domain experts capable of independently evaluating claims. YouTube is significant mass media. But the idea that it's a crucial early stage link in the…

What you are implicitly proposing is that whenever there is disagreement within the scientific community, that disagreement should be kept behind closed doors and hidden from the public until some Institution (CDC/WHO/etc) decides on a Consensus of Truth, and that this Consensus of Truth is the only narrative that can be communicated to the public. This raises a lot of questions. For instance, what happens when the C…

> until some Institution (CDC/WHO/etc) decides on a Consensus of Truth, and that this Consensus of Truth

No need to draw unfounded "implicit" proposals. I explicitly invoked a body of everyone with domain expertise to evaluate claims, not a singular institution.

Those people often do connect via institutionS created to support and benefit from their work and its utility, like professional associations, journals and trade publications, domain-specific forums, research arms, university departments.

The emphasized plural in institutionS should underscore the point that as neat a rhetorical flourish the invocation of an oppressive capital-I Institution is, it's actually substantially wrong as a way of engaging this topic. The actual truth is not going to be somehow hamstrung or stamped out if the stewards of a large public platform like YouTube follow the conversations in these communities of expertise on some topics rather than letting Lone Gunmen lead them into controversy-view battle against it.

Like Paul Graham recently said "Most implausible-sounding ideas are in fact bad and could be safely dismissed. But not when they're proposed by reasonable domain experts." The first best way to tell if someone is a domain expert is to become one; the second best is to see if the maverick can convince other domain experts.

If collective expertise itself sounds oppressive to you, wait until you try the oppression from giving authority to collective ignorance.

> the efficacy of wearing masks?

If this is talking about the surgeon general's take circa Feb/Mar 2020, I welcome its admission to this discussion, because it's actually an illustration about the problems of mass communication and how someone can say something where every last word is defensible and most of it holds up over a year later ... and yet harmful mass misunderstanding (and a handle for disinformation) can follow. And that should encourage people towards more cautious use/responsibility when it comes to media reach.

And still, even with all the problems with that... the official narrative that you seem eager to characterize as potentially misleading or oppressive had actually fixed itself, accompanied with accessible arguments and demonstrations within months.

> As for YouTube being “mass media”, come on—it’s filled with random crap uploaded by members of the public.

Walter Cronkite broadcast on narrow-producer mass-audience media.

Youtube is both mass-audience AND mass-producer. Some videos on the long tail see a few dozen views. Some videos have reached more of the world than Cronkite ever did and may still be doing so long after everyone who ever heard his voice live or even remembers his name is dead.

Seems to me that doesn't make YouTube any less "mass."

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else should scientists do than challenging the status quo? Sure, and I rather suspect there are all sorts of venues that scientists could use to communicate scientific reasons challenging the status quo, ones in which there'd be a process of discourse with other domain experts capable of independently evaluating claims. YouTube is significant mass media. But the idea that it's a crucial early stage link in the…

This is a strange take on how issues should be discussed in a free society. Rather than have ideological gate keeping at every level, I believe we in tech should advocate for a plurality of viewpoints discussed in the open. Probing, reasonable discourse is the best antidote to propaganda and confusion.

> Rather than have ideological gate keeping at every level

Are you taking the position that all gatekeeping is ideological?

Because otherwise, bringing it up when the topic seems to be gatekeeping of factual understanding seems off topic.

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else should scientists do than challenging the status quo? Sure, and I rather suspect there are all sorts of venues that scientists could use to communicate scientific reasons challenging the status quo, ones in which there'd be a process of discourse with other domain experts capable of independently evaluating claims. YouTube is significant mass media. But the idea that it's a crucial early stage link in the…

> When you deal in mass distribution, the dynamics and responsibilities are different than when you're in conversation/process with other domain experts. Why? Is the implicit assumption here that people are too stupid or irresponsible to handle hearing information & coming to their own conclusion on it? This seems like a distressingly common viewpoint nowadays...

You seem to have chosen "too stupid or irresponsible" when I chose my words to focus on "lacking education and domain expertise."

Perhaps you were just helping my case out by demonstrating how easily people sometimes confuse even relatively accessible topics like the difference between stupidity and ignorance?

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube isn’t just mass-media though - it’s a general-purpose video hosting and sharing site. I’m not familiar with the current story nor the work of those involved, but academics and researchers can and do use YouTube to share information between themselves - *if* this was, say, a highly technical or academic video with a specialised intended audience and YouTube took that down then that’s different compared to a he…

> ...compared to a heterodox (read: quack) researcher You do realise that it often takes heterodoxy - i.e. going against the orthodoxy in a field - to achieve a breakthrough? You also realise that the people Brett Weinstein is talking to are anything but quacks? Why, then, this cheap shot of implying that what they are discussing is quackery? What is to be gained by such behaviour? It is not as if the orthodox approa…

> The mantra of "trust the science" can only hold when the scientific method is allowed to function.

Do you have any evidence that the scientific method is currently not allowed to function in communities of expertise?

Because even if ALL contrarian ideas were aggressively crushed in venues like YouTube or USA Today (not actually happening, plenty of contrarianism available on YouTube), it seems like the biological sciences might have their own venues for robust discussion.

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a strange take on how issues should be discussed in a free society. Rather than have ideological gate keeping at every level, I believe we in tech should advocate for a plurality of viewpoints discussed in the open. Probing, reasonable discourse is the best antidote to propaganda and confusion.

> Rather than have ideological gate keeping at every level Are you taking the position that all gatekeeping is ideological? Because otherwise, bringing it up when the topic seems to be gatekeeping of factual understanding seems off topic.

Issues of fact are not always easy to discern and may require reasonable discourse to arrive at a conclusion, wouldn’t you agree?

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#280
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ivermectin is an old drug, so cannot be patented, which means that Merck has no way to prevent competitors from selling the drug, so no way to keep prices high.

Yes, because we all know that insulin can be had for ten cents a vile right now....oh...wait. Can we please stop trying to rationalize an irrational market. There is no reason to believe that the age of the drug has anything to do with it's profitability.

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