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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#741

Post by ttt0 »

robotdongs wrote: post #697
ttt0 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was just an old meme and it was in my native language so you wouldn't get, but the offensive part of it is simply 'bitch'. Not as a direct insult, but kinda like in "surprise, bitch". Another thing is that I got suspended for butting in to a conversation about homosexuality where someone was saying that homosexuality is natural, and I said something to the extent of "rape and murder is natural too" to point out th…

First off, a 30 day vacation from Facebook sounds wonderful, it'd be a great excuse to leave it all together. Second, not that this was your intent, but that's such a poor example to use in pointing out the fallacy that I can see why someone might see it as "hateful", which is against the TOS, whether or not it should be is a separate discussion. As a side-note, pointing out a logical fallacy doesn't invalidate someo…

> a 30 day vacation from Facebook sounds wonderful, it'd be a great excuse to leave it all together.

I left Facebook few years ago. I can't really back it up with anything, but I have a suspicion that this is the main reason why people are leaving Facebook. Not concerns about privacy.

> that's such a poor example to use in pointing out the fallacy

That's a really common example to show the flaws in appeal to nature argument and pretty much the best you can make, because not many people support rape and murder. That's the point.

> I can see why someone might see it as "hateful", which is against the TOS,

And that's the problem. Just as I said, your intentions don't matter and if someone interprets it as hateful then you're out. It's completely arbitrary.

> pointing out a logical fallacy doesn't invalidate someone's argument, ironically this is itself a fallacy.

Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it does. Depends on what the argument and the context is.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#742

Post by ttt0 »

theiafan wrote: post #736
ttt0 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was just an old meme and it was in my native language so you wouldn't get, but the offensive part of it is simply 'bitch'. Not as a direct insult, but kinda like in "surprise, bitch". Another thing is that I got suspended for butting in to a conversation about homosexuality where someone was saying that homosexuality is natural, and I said something to the extent of "rape and murder is natural too" to point out th…

Way to bury the lede. You got banned for posting an offensive slurish meme in the middle of a conversation that you self-admittedly interjected into in order to compare two people of the same gender loving each other to murder . Yes, you're such a victim, a key part of the usual formula. Slow clap for the mods. Let this guy parrot his low-key right wing shit on this website, but the second someone calls out the usual…

People flagged down your BS, you're such a victim too. But I did you a favor and vouched for your comment.

These were two completely separate situations. The fun part in the "slurish meme" ban is that it was some ancient comment, that I believe was made before they even implemented their hate speech policy. Someone was just going through my history to look for comments I could get banned for when I was voicing my opinions on local, mundane politics that were completely irrelevant to anyone except people who live in my area.

That's not what happened. Someone said "I think X because Y" and I said "Z is also Y, and yet Z is a bad thing". That is not comparing X to Z.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#743

Post by onethought »

shkkmo wrote: post #737
onethought wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it’s always worth pointing out irrational reasoning though. There are clear benefits to real-time monitoring of power. So far I’ve only heard made up, theoretical, what if, privacy concerns.

> no, it’s always worth pointing out irrational reasoning though. You haven't done that though. You've made accusations of irrationality without ever once backing them up. > So far I’ve only heard made up, theoretical, what if, privacy concerns. I think engineers have am ethical duty to consider "theoretical" privacy concerns when they are working on new technology. Given the history of data mining and brokerage in t…

Irrational premise: smart meters have privacy concerns over normal meters.

Me: how so, there is way too much noise (generation and storage) to get signal (usage correlation). In real life smart meters allow for all sorts of benefits/innovation (time of use charges, time off user feed in)

You: you haven’t said anything, just wild accusations of irrationality. Privacy is a concern, data harvesting!!! Pretending this isn’t going to happen is crazy.

Wtf? Smart meters exist, and this hasn’t happened. Show me one instance. Time of use charges are a thing, look them up. Using electrical usage data to gather private information is not a thing. Look that up too.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#744

Post by onethought »

shkkmo wrote: post #462
idiotsecant wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...You say from your personal wiretapping device.

Which I have the ability to choose when/if I am survieled by by leaving it at home or throwing it in a river.

You can turn your power off too whenever you like.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#745

Post by onethought »

shkkmo wrote: post #324
ribosometronome wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also bill users for peak usage times when electricity is expensive or requires falling back on non-renewable resources for production with hourly data.

I can think of a number of ways to do that that preserve privacy far better than real-time reporting of power usage.

How can you charge time of use without collecting time of use data?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#746

Post by count »

ganzuul wrote: post #740
count wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that hyperbole? Is a store not a private place?

> Should you be forced to put my stuff in your house? This is a hyperbole because a private home is completely different from what we are discussing. This should be obvious.

Please, draw the line that makes it different.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#747

Post by ganzuul »

count wrote: post #746
ganzuul wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should you be forced to put my stuff in your house? This is a hyperbole because a private home is completely different from what we are discussing. This should be obvious.

Please, draw the line that makes it different.

These are open sets, not closed sets, like almost everything in the real world.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#748

Post by kixiQu »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #255
kixiQu wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not video hosting that's monopolyish, then, that's English-speaking-audience video discovery , which is a quite different proposition.

Agreed, but that's a technicality. What matters is, if you want to make a living, you have to host on YouTube. (You can host elsewhere, but over 99% of your revenue will come from your notoriety at YouTube, if not YouTube directly.) And if you want videos, they're all on YouTube. You can search for them elsewhere but most of the content is on YouTube, and you won't avoid it even if your search started from a general…

When talking about the concept of monopoly, it's quite relevant which part is under discussion. For example, a lot of video content I consume is from Instagram or TikTok. This stuff is real and it counts. Creators there often have little to no YouTube presence, and are relying on their platforms for the same question of discovery, and your claim about 99% of their revenue simply isn't accurate. This is a quibble, except for the fact that when we're talking about monopoly, every exception counts.

"If you want to make a living, you have to host on YouTube." If you want to short-circuit a lot of the work of audience development by having a recommendation algorithm point a firehose of eyeballs at your stuff, you have to host on YouTube or a comparable platform. However, that is a very different thing, and not a technicality at all! The business model of a YouTube creator is precarious and contingent, because their relationship with their audience is so thoroughly mediated by the platform that the platform's whims give and take away. ("Hit the bell so you don't miss a video") Essentially, there's a risk of taking the dependent-on-platform-aspect of this business model for granted in a way that obscures the alternatives people really do use these days. (E.g., I know we probably all hate those Wordpress sales funnel things, but from the perspective of "how do I make money from my content" they're genuinely an option we should be contrasting here)

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