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Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

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Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#161

Post by dqv »

haswell wrote: post #152
syops wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtually all sex acts can be done in a healthy way provided both parties are truly into it. Porn has created expectations in men as to what women normally want and as a result a lot of women do sex acts that they don't truly like. Porn has distorted the view of what is 'normal' and the expectations of what a woman should consent to.

The parent comment asks for specifics, but you go back to generalizing porn in response. > Porn has distorted the view of what is ‘normal’ Surely you mean some porn, but you have not clarified which types. What do you say to plain, “vanilla” porn that pushes no boundaries? As with so many things, this is not a black or white issue, and statements like your final sentence do nothing to advance a nuanced conversation a…

It's kind of like how social media warps our perception of what people (should) look like. Or how many vacations we should be going on [0,1]. Porn can affect how long we think sex should last and the positions we think we should be in [2]. Yes, even vanilla porn. While I think the anti-porn movement started with a religious-purity undertone, the secular explanations for why porn isn't such a great idea are convincing [3].

I would also ask anyone engaging in this discussion to replace the word "porn" with "alcohol" and see if it makes sense. Examine if it is useful to respond "well not everyone gets addicted to alcohol" when discussing the problems with alcohol. At least with me, there is an implied understanding that it's possible to use porn without getting addicted (even if I am becoming more skeptical of this assumption).

[0]: https://www.travelpulse.com/news/features/how-the-decades-ri...

[1]: https://www.travelpulse.com/news/features/traveling-for-soci...

[2]: https://www.npr.org/2019/05/25/723192364/what-we-dont-talk-a... (Consider whether the violence argument is useful in this discussion. I personally don't believe violence activates as many neural pathways as arousing images and orgasm.)

[3]: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#162

Post by syops »

haswell wrote: post #160
syops wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to find research on the topic. The research supports my view.

So share the research that supports your view… As the person making claims without evidence, the onus is on you at this point. You’re not going to change minds if you’re not willing to share where you’re coming from.

A person sufficiently interested in exploring whether or not I'm right can easily use a search engine and find the research. If a person can't be bothered to do that on their own then I think nothing I post will change their mind. An intellectually curious person will delve into the issue once they see dissenting opinions being expressed.

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#163

Post by yesenadam »

gverrilla wrote: post #124
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #18

"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." - Blaise Pascal https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/blaise_pascal_133380

is that even a real quote? couldn't find a source in a google, except for quoting sites without sources. doesn't sound like the pascal I've read on the Pensées at all, but maybe I'm wrong I know for sure Shakespeare and Einstein have a lot of fake quotes atributed to them, and also Chaplin

It's adapted from Pensées II.139, which begins:

139. Diversion.--When I have occasionally set myself to consider the different distractions of men, the pains and perils to which they expose themselves at court or in war, whence arise so many quarrels, passions, bold and often bad ventures, etc., I have discovered that all the unhappiness of men arises from one single fact, that they cannot stay quietly in their own chamber. A man who has enough to live on, if he knew how to stay with pleasure at home, would not leave it to go to sea or to besiege a town. A commission in the army would not be bought so dearly, but that it is found insufferable not to budge from the town; and men only seek conversation and entering games, because they cannot remain with pleasure at home.

http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/pensees/pensees-SECTION-2...

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#164

Post by Klinky »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #109
Klinky wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Novelty. How often are you part of a study where you get to shock yourself? It makes a good story, and this kind of makes the study less useful. The "shock value" of shocking oneself is its own entertainment. Would not be surprised if some of the people who didn't shock themselves were spending the time trying to amp themselves up to take the shock, but just never did.

All the participants had received a "sample" shock and decided they didn't like it. They already had their good story.

- The shock was considered "mild".

- "didn't like" was based on paying some part of an imaginary $5, not their money and not big money. I couldn't find how much of the imaginary money people would spend. $1 or $5, seems both were counted as "negative", despite a potential gradient in just how much someone disliked it.

- There could be peer pressure to have a negative opinion of the shock because people would assume you would want to avoid being shocked, that's what a "normal" person would do.

- People have different levels of pain tolerance. Those with higher tolerance may find the shock more interesting than painful.

- The recollection of an event can diminish quickly, especially when being questioned about other things, while being left in a room with only the shock button would expectedly narrow their focus back to the shock they had received earlier, likely triggering further curiosity about their shock tolerance.

- While being shocked as prep for the "test" is part of the story, the other half of the story is being left in a room with the shock button, and people are going to want to know if you shocked yourself or not.

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#165

Post by Spooky23 »

angrais wrote: post #147
Spooky23 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s acceptable to have a position or opinion, civilly stated. Any of the common “vices” like gambling, porn, Skinner box games, some drugs are difficult for people to manage. That dopamine hit burns behavioral pathways into the brain and is tough to undo.

Why are you (and others in this thread) grouping porn with drugs and gambling? To me, this does not make any sense. Watching porn is not a bad thing. Obviously, if you're talking about addiction then perhaps, but do you think people are addicted to porn (on average) to the extent others are to those other vices? Likewise, gambling and drugs impact you both physically and mentally, whereas the evidence for porn's impa…

Watching porn in of itself is no more a bad thing than playing poker or a video game. I’m not making a moral judgment.

Like gambling, it’s easy to fall into a behavior pattern that is similar to gambling. ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4600144/ ) I’m not sure of the pervasiveness of gambling or porn addiction, it isn’t my field.

There’s a reason why online porn pivoted to a model similar to YouTube — it’s a model that drives engagement, and you very commonly hear evidence that YouTube has a very significant addiction, even for toddlers.

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#166

Post by FormhellFrom »

JackFr wrote: post #157
pault wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, some people of all genders get their kicks from being sexually dominated. The issue is knowing where the other person’s limits are and having good communication. This becomes a problem when people find discussing their sexual preferences embarrassing, even with their partners. My sex life improved greatly when I started asking my partners if they have any fantasies and exploring them together. Sometimes p…

It’s possible though as a society we’ve lost the idea of a disordered desire. If you’ve got an authentic desire to be sexually dominated or to humiliate and dominate others, we now say “That’s ok, that’s your authentic self. It’s cool as long as everything is consensual.” But maybe it’s not OK. Maybe it’s behavior that if indulged keeps us from living and thriving and keeps us from being our best selves. I’m not maki…

You’re absolutely making a moral argument. The moral argument is: “people should not do things that I don’t like”. Weird sex has existed since time immemorial, and people will continue to do weird shit long after society collapses and we go back to smashing rocks together.

What difference does it make if someone likes being choked? How does that prevent them from “living their best life?” Of course, I realize that you and the GP are being weasels and really want to to say that some other widely politicized current issue is actually the fault of porn. Why don’t you just say it?

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#167

Post by Spooky23 »

haswell wrote: post #158
Spooky23 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you have a hang up about this. I enjoy drinking alcohol and have no issues with it, but that doesn’t mean acknowledging that alcoholism is a thing is a problem or some judgemental act.

The potential downsides associated alcohol consumption are well understood, and this understanding has permeated most societies. The same cannot be said for porn consumption. While studies exist, this is not a well understood topic, and big claims are going to be met with skepticism and demands for evidence.

That makes sense, as alcohol use and abuse has been with us for a millennia or more. The internet is a tad bit newer.

If you look, you will find plenty of inquiry, debate and research into the topic.

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#168

Post by haswell »

syops wrote: post #162
haswell wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So share the research that supports your view… As the person making claims without evidence, the onus is on you at this point. You’re not going to change minds if you’re not willing to share where you’re coming from.

A person sufficiently interested in exploring whether or not I'm right can easily use a search engine and find the research. If a person can't be bothered to do that on their own then I think nothing I post will change their mind. An intellectually curious person will delve into the issue once they see dissenting opinions being expressed.

Someone else in the thread was kind enough to share what they felt are good sources, so I’ll take a look at those.

I can only conclude that you have nothing to back your position, and you are postulating based on 2nd hand information. Of course I can go google something, but the value of a community like HN is that the sources shared by members here tend to be good ones (or at least better than average). Your refusal to contribute followed by a No True Scotsman argument are pretty disappointing.

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#169

Post by syops »

haswell wrote: post #168
syops wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person sufficiently interested in exploring whether or not I'm right can easily use a search engine and find the research. If a person can't be bothered to do that on their own then I think nothing I post will change their mind. An intellectually curious person will delve into the issue once they see dissenting opinions being expressed.

Someone else in the thread was kind enough to share what they felt are good sources, so I’ll take a look at those. I can only conclude that you have nothing to back your position, and you are postulating based on 2nd hand information. Of course I can go google something, but the value of a community like HN is that the sources shared by members here tend to be good ones (or at least better than average). Your refusal…

There is another possible conclusion. Namely, that what I wrote is indeed true as to why I didn't post links. This topic is sort of like an anti-vax topic. I can post lots of links that vaccines are safe and worth taking but if someone is too obtuse to even bother to look up the relevant information themself then nothing I post/say will sway them. Hence, posting links to scientific research to an anti-vaxxer is meaningless. It's not a "no true Scotsman" argument because I'm not making an argument. I'm simply stating why I didn't post links. That isn't an argument it's just a rationalization for why I didn't post links to the research.

It's really quite easy to find stuff written about the destructive aspects to porn.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experimentations/201...

Re: Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

#170

Post by danielheath »

dctoedt wrote: post #131
r0b05 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a profound realisation that is usually preceded by experiencing the sickness and suffering that comes with unrestrained desire. How it takes over one's discriminating faculties until one becomes blind to everyday beauty. I cannot recommend meditation enough to train the mind to stay calm when desires want to run rampant. No mantras or music, just sit in silence and boredom. Thoughts will come and go and event…

How long did it take you to notice that meditation made a difference?

Now that I know how to do it, I personally notice improvement after 15 minutes or so, lasting for about two days.

Embarrassingly, even that’s often still not enough to get me doing it regularly. Habits are hard to build.

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