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“YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

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Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#231

Post by ds206 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #192
micouay wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ivermectin is not a newly-discovered drug. There were hundereds of millions of courses administered world wide (it even got a Nobel prize). It has been used for decades. [1] The only unknown right now is the long term effect of ivermectin in patients with covid. It seems to me that it's the same unknown as with the vaccines. You don't have a clinical trial for effects of the vaccines after 5 years, do you? Why don't…

> There were hundereds of millions of courses administered world wide Except that the doses involved are way lower than what's being speculated about (on flimsy evidence) as a possible COVID-19 treatment. And this drug has severe side effects at such higher doses. There's no way in hell that this stuff is ever going to be safer than mRNA vaccines, let alone more effective.

That's not true.

Here is a 12 min clip with Bret and Pierre Kory about Ivermectin use for Covid / safety record: https://youtu.be/4O7uy4tzI8A

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#232

Post by zephyr1 »

japgolly wrote: post #210
zephyr1 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a crank conspiracy theory it should be easy to disprove. If it's more complicated then that, then you shouldn't be so confident you're the smart guy in the room.

It takes orders of magnitude more effort to counteract bullshit than it does to produce it. Your opinion doesn't scale and not only is it easily exploitable by bad actors, it's happening in practice all over the place these days and is a huge, huge problem.

Or maybe your arguments aren't as good as you think...

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#233

Post by [deleted] »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #208
natural219 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you deal in mass distribution, the dynamics and responsibilities are different than when you're in conversation/process with other domain experts. Why? Is the implicit assumption here that people are too stupid or irresponsible to handle hearing information & coming to their own conclusion on it? This seems like a distressingly common viewpoint nowadays...

> Is the implicit assumption here that people are too stupid or irresponsible to handle hearing information & coming to their own conclusion on it? At risk of being flippant, have you been on Facebook lately at all in the past 5-6 years?

[deleted]

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#234

Post by spfzero »

wwweston wrote: post #195
micouay wrote: post #7

What else should scientists do than challenging the status quo? Bret (Eric's brother, biology PhD) had a 2h long conversation with Pierre Kory (MD) and it was taken down by YT. One of the things they talked was the recommendations of WHO and other organisations to focus on supportive care only (supporting the patient while their organism fights the disease by itself). They insist on not using other treatments outside…

> What else should scientists do than challenging the status quo? Sure, and I rather suspect there are all sorts of venues that scientists could use to communicate scientific reasons challenging the status quo, ones in which there'd be a process of discourse with other domain experts capable of independently evaluating claims. YouTube is significant mass media. But the idea that it's a crucial early stage link in the…

I think spreading new thinking on treatments for a pandemic that is killing millions, might actually be "crucial". May turn out to be right, may turn out to be wrong, but we've already seen lots of "wrong" information turn out to have been actually right, and the successful censorship of that "wrong-but-soon-to-be-right" information was in retrospect unfortunate, to say the least.

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#235

Post by garyfirestorm »

squidlogic wrote: post #222
wwweston wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else should scientists do than challenging the status quo? Sure, and I rather suspect there are all sorts of venues that scientists could use to communicate scientific reasons challenging the status quo, ones in which there'd be a process of discourse with other domain experts capable of independently evaluating claims. YouTube is significant mass media. But the idea that it's a crucial early stage link in the…

This is a strange take on how issues should be discussed in a free society. Rather than have ideological gate keeping at every level, I believe we in tech should advocate for a plurality of viewpoints discussed in the open. Probing, reasonable discourse is the best antidote to propaganda and confusion.

Yup we should totally Facebook it

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#236

Post by simonh »

userbinator wrote: post #191
deadalus wrote: post #3

Youtube Alternatives : Centralized : Bitchute, Rumble, DTube, Dailymotion, Vimeo, Vidlii Decentralized : Odysee(LBRY), Peertube

Many of those are filled with even more fringe stuff like conspiracy theories, precisely because they wouldn't be allowed on YouTube. That makes it convenient for normalising public opinion, as anything on these alternative sites would be associated with even worse misinformation.

> …if you’re against witch-hunts, and you promise to found your own little utopian community where witch-hunts will never happen, your new society will end up consisting of approximately three principled civil libertarians and seven zillion witches. - Scott Alexander

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#237

Post by ds206 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
ds206 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is paying for studies where there is no money to be made later. It's a chicken and egg problem in a way. Ivermectin is cheap and off patent.

> No one is paying for studies where there is no money to be made later A number of public and philanthropic groups write grants. I’ve written grants. And just because a commercial interest funds a study doesn’t mean it’s B.S.

Oh I'm not saying that commercial interest automatically makes a study BS.

I'm saying that commercial interest is commercial interest so why would it fund a study that isn't commercially viable?

Ivermectin isn't a money maker. It's a life saver. Vaccines and other new solutions are money makers and life savers (they hope)

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#238

Post by tootie »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #19
MattGaiser wrote: post #14

The makers of Ivermectin are against the use of Ivermectin for Covid. https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use... The dissenters are advocating things even the company that stands to profit from those things opposes. That’s how off the deep end this is.

The company has another upcoming drug they want to push rather than ivermectin: https://twitter.com/BretWeinstein/status/1402647948371005441 E: To add, I'm not a doctor but Brett Weinstein seems adamant that ivermectin is a very safe drug for humans. One point he has made is that because ivermectin is safe for consumption, there's no (Or very little) downside to taking it in an attempt to prevent or help with COVID.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/06/07/iv...

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#239

Post by simonh »

zoomgyal wrote: post #169
jonathankoren wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only someone that doesn’t understand what censorship is would say this. You’re arguing for government compelled speech.

What do you think censorship actually means? Private and Public organizations engage in censorship all the time. Youtube doesn't have to host these videos but it is still censorship. The word is morally neutral.

There’s a grey area between censorship and editorial choice. For example is YouTube disallowing porn censorship? Pornhub seems to be doing very well.

I think some of the social media platforms are making mistakes sometimes at the moment, but honestly they’re faced with very difficult choices. Ultimately they do have to make those choices, there’s no such thing as broadcast communications platforms without editorial selection of some kind.

Re: “YouTube is shutting down dissenting Biology PhDs and MDs”

#240

Post by unparagoned »

ds206 wrote: post #200
tsimionescu wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of a site like HN is exactly to give quality 2nd or 3rd hand accounts, so I don't need to watch an hour long video to form an opinion on it. There are many, many orders of magnitude too much 1st hand knowledge in the world for anyone to comb through. If you want to be informed on a broad range of topics, the only chance is to go by reporting that you trust, and for a great many people, that includes comme…

Right, the video in question is literally the reporting I trust. The video itself appears (to me) to be between qualified people talking about medical information is a careful way like adults. Maybe you should watch it? Just the first 15 mins?

The bits I watched were just full on conspiracy type comments about how even the manufacturer is only saying the drug doesn't work due to various conspiracy reasons. I recommend people to watch it to see how much of a crank bret is and how its clearly dangerous conspiracy nonsense being spouted
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