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The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

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Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#51
I want something small like Palm Phone, which is beautiful and refined.

But Palm Phone totally screws it up by marketing themselves as "companion phone" (your second mobile phone, why would I have 2 phones??) and the battery life is 5h (wtf is this??).

Other minimal phones focuses on calling, and guess what? 99% of my calls in the past few years were with spam.

Currently, there is absolutely no minimal small smart phone.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#52
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want a performant Linux phone, put some skin in the game. The reality is that this ain't going to happen. There will be never enough volunteer-based work to enable the level of effort that it requires to develop consumer devices like smartphones. Commercial actors have so much money and power, and people have bills to pay. This is something where full open source model just doesn't work.

Why is Linux Desktop viable (I'm certainly very happy with it at least) but phones are too much work?

It took decades to get a usable stack that I am confident on running on most of today's consumer computers.

And things like Wayland and Mir and some desktops reinventing their own wheels all the time are/were seriously putting that into jeopardy.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#53

I want something small like Palm Phone, which is beautiful and refined. But Palm Phone totally screws it up by marketing themselves as "companion phone" (your second mobile phone, why would I have 2 phones??) and the battery life is 5h (wtf is this??). Other minimal phones focuses on calling, and guess what? 99% of my calls in the past few years were with spam. Currently, there is absolutely no minimal small smart ph…

I've got Unihertz Jelly 2. It is smaller than "Palm Palm" in width and heigth, but a bit thicker in depth, which is a good thing. Screen is a bit tad too small, but good enough for calls and other basic functions. Typing in portrait mode is tricky, at least.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#54

The biggest threat to Linux on phones could be Fuchsia. If/when Google decides to switch to a Fuchsia base for Android, all the chipset vendors will follow suit and that will make it even harder to find chipsets that can be used with a Linux kernel - upstream or not. That will dry up the amount of effort put into making Linux a good mobile platform. Maybe the stable binary api of Fuchsia drivers will be usable on Lin…

Don’t you think we will see more general computing ARM chips with the M1’s success? Aren’t we approaching a world where your phone, tablet (hopefully eating the laptop…), desktop and server all run more or less the same chip?

CPU standardization is already here, your iPhone runs ARMv8-A does that allow you to replace the kernel on your iPhone?

What it is about android that allows you to do so is the copyleft license on the linux kernel. Chips can be locked down, and they generally are.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#55
One point that should be repeated ad infinitum for those reading about the Pinephone for the 1st time: it's all about the freedom, not performance. One doesn't buy the Pinephone to brag about its technical achievements with friends, but rather to contribute building an ecosystem, even just by spreading the word, of people who put freedom and privacy above everything. I also should be repeated ad infinitum why its hardware is limited compared to other devices, and I don't mean the well known ones but also those built by the hundreds of thousands by Chinese factories then relabeled under a dozen different lesser known brands. The reason is that Pine64 had to make all of it from scratch since obtaining any meaningful technical information from those hardware makers is impossible, so they had literally to pick what hardware had the most open documentation available. Supporting them is our way to send a strong message: "we've had enough of your black boxes". Big players of course won't give a flying damn since the market of privacy conscious users wouldn't represent a fraction of a fraction of their user base, but hopefully that will help convincing other manufacturers to publish their specs. Phones aside, there are other ways to help them. I'm waiting for a beefier version of the Pinetab, am considering the PineBook pro (with EU keyboard which is out of stock) and in the meantime got their mini solder iron which works surprisingly well (and I have two Wellers).

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#57

The biggest threat to Linux on phones could be Fuchsia. If/when Google decides to switch to a Fuchsia base for Android, all the chipset vendors will follow suit and that will make it even harder to find chipsets that can be used with a Linux kernel - upstream or not. That will dry up the amount of effort put into making Linux a good mobile platform. Maybe the stable binary api of Fuchsia drivers will be usable on Lin…

Is something wrong with using Fuchsia kernel insted of Linux?

It's open source and it has a modern, secure capability architecture.

Running Linux binaries, not just source code, is a design goal of Fuchsia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26104667

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#58

One point that should be repeated ad infinitum for those reading about the Pinephone for the 1st time: it's all about the freedom, not performance. One doesn't buy the Pinephone to brag about its technical achievements with friends, but rather to contribute building an ecosystem, even just by spreading the word, of people who put freedom and privacy above everything. I also should be repeated ad infinitum why its har…

It's sad to see free hardware is so comically behind commercial one.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#59
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Linux Desktop viable (I'm certainly very happy with it at least) but phones are too much work?

Even Linux desktop suffers from a lack of contributors. Even many core-infrastructure projects are shockingly dependent on 1–2 devs who have been unsuccessful in attracting more contributions. One example of where the manpower just isn’t there for both Linux desktop and the PinePhone is a solid maps app. All solutions are little more than tech demos compared to OSMAnd on Android. Yes, OSMAnd itself has grown through…

I don’t think Anbox is not so much about man power. It’s for proprietary services or services that don’t have a decent Linux app. I recall the early days of Android very well [0], it had a similar lack of apps (then compared to Symbian and Windows Mobile). I don’t think it’s wise to say “this is not going to happen” one year after the first Community Edition PinePhones were delivered.

For an overview of the current PinePhone app landscape I suggest a look at https://LINMOBapps.frama.io – contributions welcome!

[0] I recently brought back old posts to my blog https://linmob.net that I wrote 1.2 years after the G1’s initial US release.

Re: The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life

#60

One point that should be repeated ad infinitum for those reading about the Pinephone for the 1st time: it's all about the freedom, not performance. One doesn't buy the Pinephone to brag about its technical achievements with friends, but rather to contribute building an ecosystem, even just by spreading the word, of people who put freedom and privacy above everything. I also should be repeated ad infinitum why its har…

To me the PinePhone and other Linux phones are also about performance. Yes the MVP prototypes will always suck and you would only buy these for freedom's sake, but a truly unified software platform encompassing both mobile and mainstream computing all running on openly documented reference hardware, will be far superior technically to what we have today.
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