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Diabetes Drug Metformin Reduces All-Cause Mortality and Diseases of Aging (2017)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Diabetes Drug Metformin Reduces All-Cause Mortality and Diseases of Aging (2017)

#81

Post by quintaindilemma »

rscho wrote: post #48
myfavoritedog wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades, we were told that the food pyramid was the ideal healthy diet and that dietary fat was the enemy. It was all bullshit. Eggs are healthy, eggs are unhealthy, eggs are really unhealthy, eggs are healthy, eggs are really healthy. I had trained medical professionals tell me twenty years ago that I was going to ruin my kidneys with my low-carb dieting. Twenty years later, I'm still keeping the weight off and…

There are many things I don't know. However, here's one thing I know to be true: individual experiments do not make for population-level generalizations. Additionally, dieting by reducing or even excluding a single well-known food category when there are many more left appears as less radical than taking a pill that will rebalance your whole metabolism, don't you think? Regarding the "we really don't know" part: one…

What's your point here in the second paragraph? You say that

1. people use their own "shamanic" medicine based on published scientific papers,

2. people disparage clinical practioners' theories which are based on research and which are later often refuted,

3. you conclude that the "many of those theories" of (2) are "based on lots of research" but often flawed,

4. which "does not bode well for" experiments based on the papers of (1).

What does (2) have to do with (1), unless the content of the papers and "experiments" in each are closely related?

Perhaps you could clarify what you were trying to say here.

Re: Diabetes Drug Metformin Reduces All-Cause Mortality and Diseases of Aging (2017)

#82

Post by rscho »

quintaindilemma wrote: post #81
rscho wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many things I don't know. However, here's one thing I know to be true: individual experiments do not make for population-level generalizations. Additionally, dieting by reducing or even excluding a single well-known food category when there are many more left appears as less radical than taking a pill that will rebalance your whole metabolism, don't you think? Regarding the "we really don't know" part: one…

What's your point here in the second paragraph? You say that 1. people use their own "shamanic" medicine based on published scientific papers, 2. people disparage clinical practioners' theories which are based on research and which are later often refuted, 3. you conclude that the "many of those theories" of (2) are "based on lots of research" but often flawed, 4. which "does not bode well for" experiments based on t…

1. People want to take metformin. They will cite various sources they extract from Pubmed, but the truth is that they got the impression that metformin was good for them while reading pop-sci articles and Facebook threads.

2. They then proceed to ask their doc for metformin, since it's a prescription drug. Unless the doc wants to commit career-seppuku or the patient has a reason for taking metformin according to current guidelines based on years of clinical use and research, the doc will refuse even when presented said Pubmed evidence.

Conclusion: people who want to take metformin will look into alternate sources, because they built a preconceived belief and nothing a sensible professional says will change their mind. People then proceed with metformin and if a change in indication occurs in the future that agrees with their belief, they will feel vindicated while in fact they are just lucky fools.

Re: Diabetes Drug Metformin Reduces All-Cause Mortality and Diseases of Aging (2017)

#83

Post by rscho »

quintaindilemma wrote: post #80
rscho wrote: post #20

This whole comment section is totally delusional regarding the reliability of medical statistics and preliminary data in life science. It's funny (and sad) to see people easily disparaging "state-of-the-art treatments" be so prone to experiment on themselves with moonshot claims.

But an individual has no choice in his/her actions except the "moonshot". We are individuals, not statistical aggregations. Every choice we make is, in a way, a "moonshot".

In medicine, if you opt in for something that falls into the domain of the experimental or research, then you should know that you are doing this for yourself, but for others who will benefit from the knowledge that it worked or failed. If it works, it'll just be a happy accident and means absolutely nothing in isolation regarding population-level guidelines.

Which is why officially, people have a choice in participating to research studies but aren't allowed free access to whatever drug they want to take. This opinion is also supported by current medical ethics and practitioners have a duty to make their patients clearly understand that.

Fortunately for the rest of the world, american patients have a lot of trouble in understanding that last point.

Re: Diabetes Drug Metformin Reduces All-Cause Mortality and Diseases of Aging (2017)

#84

Post by staticassertion »

rscho wrote: post #70
the__alchemist wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an appeal to authority.

Yes. To say that I don't need assistance. It spares people the effort of scouring Pubmed for nothing.

FWIW I didn't scour pubmed, I had already read those studies quite some time ago. I didn't just google "metformin pubmed" or whatever.

Re: Diabetes Drug Metformin Reduces All-Cause Mortality and Diseases of Aging (2017)

#85

Post by mattmcknight »

rscho wrote: post #78
mattmcknight wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Years and years of widespread clinical practice would be my standard How do you get "years and years of widespread clinical practice" if no one will let people try it?

The point of research is to have a controlled experiment. Not a bunch of individuals taking whatever they like on their own.

Research is not "years and years of clinical practice". Do you agree that "years and years of clinical practice" is not a good criteria to use for prescription, or are you just saying you don't use anything until other people have been using it for years and years. (and in this case, hasn't it been used for years and years?)

Re: Diabetes Drug Metformin Reduces All-Cause Mortality and Diseases of Aging (2017)

#86

Post by rscho »

mattmcknight wrote: post #85
rscho wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of research is to have a controlled experiment. Not a bunch of individuals taking whatever they like on their own.

Research is not "years and years of clinical practice". Do you agree that "years and years of clinical practice" is not a good criteria to use for prescription, or are you just saying you don't use anything until other people have been using it for years and years. (and in this case, hasn't it been used for years and years?)

I don't use anything not covered by guidelines if I can avoid it. And in the event I can't avoid it, I'll always go for the more usual practice, i.e. the one backed by years and years of experience. If you want to participate in clinical trials, that's another matter entirely and has nothing to do with usual care or individuals taking whatever on their own.

I think that much was pretty clear already.

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