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Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

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Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#51

Post by runawaybottle »

brabel wrote: post #32
mlang23 wrote: post #24

I cant wait until I can go back to the office 100%. WFH, while convenient, is something I never wanted. I didnt want it 20 years ago when I started to work, and I dont want it full time today either, even with the covid experience. Human interaction is not tradable, and online conferencing sucks even more then a real meeting.

Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

Right? Hey bro, I really don’t need to interact with you. You think I give a shit about your need for human interaction when you’re making me commute daily and pretend to fake work half the time at a desk.

Fuck that, go to a bar, I don’t need friends.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#52

Post by mlang23 »

brabel wrote: post #32
mlang23 wrote: post #24

I cant wait until I can go back to the office 100%. WFH, while convenient, is something I never wanted. I didnt want it 20 years ago when I started to work, and I dont want it full time today either, even with the covid experience. Human interaction is not tradable, and online conferencing sucks even more then a real meeting.

Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

Where I live, people are apparently not a chicken as where you live... Most of my coworkers are happy to go back to the office. I guess we have about 10% which would like to have full WHF. OTOH, I also dont care what the majority wants. What counts to me is what I want.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#53

Post by silvestrov »

matsemann wrote: post #25
xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

> but management is insistent on disallowing WFH I think a lot of management will be out of a job in the future, and they are grasping for control. Not saying we don't need managers, just that there are lots of fat that can be removed, and people have noticed lots of the managers weren't needed or invisible when WFH.

Just like with developers there is a huge difference between a mediocre and a splendid manager, both in productivity and how nice they are to work with.

WFH just makes the difference much more obvious.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#54

Post by the-dude »

WalterBright wrote: post #21
xvector wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is most definitely a control thing. Companies are afraid to lose the iron grip they have over the lives of employees.

> iron grip Jeez, give it a rest. Companies don't give a crap about your life. None have ever showed the slightest interest in anything I do when not at work.

Have you ever been asked to come in on Saturdays? Often?

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#55

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

runawaybottle wrote: post #37
ericmay wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh I don’t think so. If it comes to that Americans will just stop letting people come here to work and dismantle these programs. It’s actually something that has been unifying the Sanders/AOC and Trump camps for some time. I don’t know if he has but if not I don’t see Biden really changing much in terms of opening up/increasing H1B visas or any others in the foreseeable future. Maybe more refugees or asylum seekers t…

The current state of affairs is that we have a labor shortage. The country needs more and more service workers. Tech is the go to backup plan for any college graduate (from any major), so the white collar work is perfectly saturated at the moment due to tech (not just developers, pm’s, sales, designers, etc). The only need for h1b are for the truly ruthless cost cutters. Otherwise, you can continuously undercut just…

Wages haven't kept pace with productivity since the 70's, and income and wealth inequality has reached astronomical proportions. IMO its time for a bit of inflation and improved employee leverage.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#56

Post by marmada »

I think there's a pretty big downside to WFH: lack of in-person contact reduces team bonds which causes much more... volatility? I.e arguments are more likely to spiral out of control since you don't really know other people / care about them.

A concrete hypothesis might be: Less people would have left Base Camp if they were not remote.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#57

Post by rmetzler »

mlang23 wrote: post #24

I cant wait until I can go back to the office 100%. WFH, while convenient, is something I never wanted. I didnt want it 20 years ago when I started to work, and I dont want it full time today either, even with the covid experience. Human interaction is not tradable, and online conferencing sucks even more then a real meeting.

I would go back to office if my commute was like 20 minutes by bike and I would share a small office with one to three other people on my team.

But my commute is 1 hour one way, some people don’t get seats on the train, U-Bahn in Berlin is like a can of sardines during rush hour and the bigger part of my team is in another country and the customer is at the other side of Germany. And the office is one big open office with ~40 people working. You need noise canceling headphones to keep your sanity. I couldn’t focus without them.

I‘m glad they don’t want to force us to come back.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#58

Post by theli0nheart »

marmada wrote: post #56

I think there's a pretty big downside to WFH: lack of in-person contact reduces team bonds which causes much more... volatility? I.e arguments are more likely to spiral out of control since you don't really know other people / care about them. A concrete hypothesis might be: Less people would have left Base Camp if they were not remote.

I mean, it’s your choice if you don’t want to meet up with your team. Lunch or coffee probably won’t be forbidden by company policy.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#59

Post by dvtrn »

trebligdivad wrote: post #49
matsemann wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but management is insistent on disallowing WFH I think a lot of management will be out of a job in the future, and they are grasping for control. Not saying we don't need managers, just that there are lots of fat that can be removed, and people have noticed lots of the managers weren't needed or invisible when WFH.

Having worked from home for ~8 years, I don't think it actually makes that much difference - you still end up with a manager who is responsible for making sure they can handle problems you have or about you and asking you to do things, and you still have managers associated with the projects you work on (those may or not be in any way related). The ones who randomly rearrange the seating however can disappear.

The ones who randomly rearrange the seating however can disappear.

Reads to me like this is the exact chaff being separated from the wheat in the parent comment, and you know what: good. The less managers like that, the better for labor and the workforce at large IMO.

I think a few of us have had that manager and hopefully learned how not to lead and motivate people.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#60

Post by xvector »

marcinzm wrote: post #39
brabel wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

Being the only one talking to the VPs and CEO in the office during lunch is probably going to be a great career boost. So don't be surprised when the people who go into the office get the nice promotions and you don't. Interestingly my whole team is very much in favor of being in the office a few days a week.

Most promotions happen by moving jobs anyways, so eh.
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