Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead • Hacker News Board

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#41

Post by RandallBrown » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

strgrd wrote: post #10

xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

The hybrid model is such a joke. For most, working in the office might as well be the 21st century business suit: an antiquated formality designed to demonstrate your obedience to authority. The hybrid model is a suit on a t-shirt. And forcing employees to be in the office X days a week means productivity on those WFH days will be nonexistent, especially if they butt against a weekend. But of course while the WFH lif…

I think a hybrid model where the office is essentially a private coworking space could work pretty well.

The company would be run like they're fully remote but there would be an easy place for people to meet up when necessary.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#42

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

mlang23 wrote: post #24

I cant wait until I can go back to the office 100%. WFH, while convenient, is something I never wanted. I didnt want it 20 years ago when I started to work, and I dont want it full time today either, even with the covid experience. Human interaction is not tradable, and online conferencing sucks even more then a real meeting.

[deleted]

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#43

Post by dhruvrrp » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

I don't think people quitting directly correlates to WFH. A bunch of people I know who wanted to quit during the pandemic are quitting now instead. No one wanted to risk being unemployed during the pandemic.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#44

Post by TigeriusKirk » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #5

xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

They will be happy to replace you with a H1B worker (who himself will be happy to migrate from India to the USA). The current situation is temporary since COVID immigration restrictions remain in place.

It's going to be harder to justify a "shortage" of workers when companies cut themselves off from the remote worker pool. I have no doubt they will, but the lie will be much more obvious.

Companies also won't be able to claim they hire the best if the rule out remote, but of course they'll still say it.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#45

Post by obmelvin » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #21

xvector wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is most definitely a control thing. Companies are afraid to lose the iron grip they have over the lives of employees.

> iron grip Jeez, give it a rest. Companies don't give a crap about your life. None have ever showed the slightest interest in anything I do when not at work.

I feel your point, but obviously not every work environment is the same.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#46

Post by teucris » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #31

Raed667 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm struggling with the idea of hybrid WFH. It still means that I need to live near the office. Instead of a cheaper, quieter place far away from cities. Besides making middle-management happy, I'm not sure what is the benefit of having one required day per week at the office.

I've found that it's much harder to form social bonds, especially cross-team, when working remotely and never seeing people in person. Socializing via Zoom is not the same. The lack of lunch and hallway conversation hurts a lot without even getting into the outside of work socializing. That in turn leads to minor issues exploding because no one has a sense of empathy built for anyone else.

Came to make a comment like this. Some jobs are great to do entirely remotely and forcing workers in those roles to come into an office is completely outdated bullshit.

But there are tons of jobs that require trust and collaboration. For those workers, in-person relationship building is a fundamental part of the job.

We need to be clearer in our job titles and descriptions about that, so that there is less conflict in expectations of remote work.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#47

Post by xvector » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #21

xvector wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is most definitely a control thing. Companies are afraid to lose the iron grip they have over the lives of employees.

> iron grip Jeez, give it a rest. Companies don't give a crap about your life. None have ever showed the slightest interest in anything I do when not at work.

If this was really the case, WFH would be a no-brainer and would not meet so much resistance from management.

Most companies clearly care more about the fact that they can account for the time you’re in office, as opposed to how productive you actually are.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#48

Post by ck425 » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

Companies that don't allow partial WFH confuse me. All my employers, even before the pandemic, have allowed ad-hoc WFH whenever. It worked fine. If the team had a meeting or day where we all needed to be in we just said so and worked around anyone who had to WFH at certain times or days. There was never any official policy, people were just trusted to be sensible. Got a GP or dentist appointment near home, just WFH. Feeling under the weather but not so bad that you take a sick day, WFH. Need a day to focus, WFH. Hell if you know you're going to have a hangover, WFH (you never said so but it was an open secret and no one cared so long as the work got done). It was great and I can't see any downside to it at all.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#49

Post by trebligdivad » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

matsemann wrote: post #25

xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

> but management is insistent on disallowing WFH I think a lot of management will be out of a job in the future, and they are grasping for control. Not saying we don't need managers, just that there are lots of fat that can be removed, and people have noticed lots of the managers weren't needed or invisible when WFH.

Having worked from home for ~8 years, I don't think it actually makes that much difference - you still end up with a manager who is responsible for making sure they can handle problems you have or about you and asking you to do things, and you still have managers associated with the projects you work on (those may or not be in any way related). The ones who randomly rearrange the seating however can disappear.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#50

Post by xkqd » Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

Raed667 wrote: post #14

strgrd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hybrid model is such a joke. For most, working in the office might as well be the 21st century business suit: an antiquated formality designed to demonstrate your obedience to authority. The hybrid model is a suit on a t-shirt. And forcing employees to be in the office X days a week means productivity on those WFH days will be nonexistent, especially if they butt against a weekend. But of course while the WFH lif…

I'm struggling with the idea of hybrid WFH. It still means that I need to live near the office. Instead of a cheaper, quieter place far away from cities. Besides making middle-management happy, I'm not sure what is the benefit of having one required day per week at the office.

I’ve always held a belief that a lot of America’s social and economic inequalities are fueled by the consolidation of good, high paying jobs around a few major cities. I’d get behind any party that tries to tackle this by incentivizing the distribution of these jobs across America. If cheaper, quieter lifestyles result from this, all the better.