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Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

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Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#31

Post by marcinzm »

Raed667 wrote: post #14
strgrd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hybrid model is such a joke. For most, working in the office might as well be the 21st century business suit: an antiquated formality designed to demonstrate your obedience to authority. The hybrid model is a suit on a t-shirt. And forcing employees to be in the office X days a week means productivity on those WFH days will be nonexistent, especially if they butt against a weekend. But of course while the WFH lif…

I'm struggling with the idea of hybrid WFH. It still means that I need to live near the office. Instead of a cheaper, quieter place far away from cities. Besides making middle-management happy, I'm not sure what is the benefit of having one required day per week at the office.

I've found that it's much harder to form social bonds, especially cross-team, when working remotely and never seeing people in person. Socializing via Zoom is not the same. The lack of lunch and hallway conversation hurts a lot without even getting into the outside of work socializing. That in turn leads to minor issues exploding because no one has a sense of empathy built for anyone else.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#32

Post by brabel »

mlang23 wrote: post #24

I cant wait until I can go back to the office 100%. WFH, while convenient, is something I never wanted. I didnt want it 20 years ago when I started to work, and I dont want it full time today either, even with the covid experience. Human interaction is not tradable, and online conferencing sucks even more then a real meeting.

Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#33

Post by fennecfoxen »

xvector wrote: post #23
fennecfoxen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be distressed if we don't have at least optional work-from-office after the pandemic. I'm vaccinated. You're vaccinated. We're all adults. The company remains in possession of empty office space. Yet most firms seem to think the best thing to do is lead from behind, wait and see, until they can protect themselves by saying "i guess everyone is doing it".

Definitely channel that distress into anger. You hold the cards. Encourage the company to change, and vote with your feet if they don’t. WFH isn’t just a preference thing, having the option is about being treated with dignity like an adult. We are uniquely privileged to be in an industry where leaving for better jobs is common and rather doable.

I already did. I got fired from the job, found another job that gave me roughly a 60% raise (!) (including publicly tradeable equity), and now I rent a private office in a coworking space with some of the extra cash. This was a victory.

A consequence of this is a price tag on how much anger I have, and it's fairly small. More peaceful for me this way.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#34

Post by teeray »

WFH will also be the ultimate hiring perk. It now basically costs nothing, since the costs have already been realized. Also, everybody wants it, so it’s high value among candidates. You can basically offer the same comp as a current employer but add WFH and you have a compelling offer.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#35

Post by [deleted] »

strgrd wrote: post #10
xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

The hybrid model is such a joke. For most, working in the office might as well be the 21st century business suit: an antiquated formality designed to demonstrate your obedience to authority. The hybrid model is a suit on a t-shirt. And forcing employees to be in the office X days a week means productivity on those WFH days will be nonexistent, especially if they butt against a weekend. But of course while the WFH lif…

[deleted]

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#36

Post by okaram »

Raed667 wrote: post #14
strgrd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hybrid model is such a joke. For most, working in the office might as well be the 21st century business suit: an antiquated formality designed to demonstrate your obedience to authority. The hybrid model is a suit on a t-shirt. And forcing employees to be in the office X days a week means productivity on those WFH days will be nonexistent, especially if they butt against a weekend. But of course while the WFH lif…

I'm struggling with the idea of hybrid WFH. It still means that I need to live near the office. Instead of a cheaper, quieter place far away from cities. Besides making middle-management happy, I'm not sure what is the benefit of having one required day per week at the office.

But you don't need to live as close, right? A one hour commute sounds like hell, but once a week? Meh.

I work from home, and my team is distributed, so we work fine online, but there are a few times when we say 'we'll have that conversation over a beer when we meet in person'.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#37

Post by runawaybottle »

ericmay wrote: post #8
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will be happy to replace you with a H1B worker (who himself will be happy to migrate from India to the USA). The current situation is temporary since COVID immigration restrictions remain in place.

Eh I don’t think so. If it comes to that Americans will just stop letting people come here to work and dismantle these programs. It’s actually something that has been unifying the Sanders/AOC and Trump camps for some time. I don’t know if he has but if not I don’t see Biden really changing much in terms of opening up/increasing H1B visas or any others in the foreseeable future. Maybe more refugees or asylum seekers t…

The current state of affairs is that we have a labor shortage. The country needs more and more service workers. Tech is the go to backup plan for any college graduate (from any major), so the white collar work is perfectly saturated at the moment due to tech (not just developers, pm’s, sales, designers, etc). The only need for h1b are for the truly ruthless cost cutters. Otherwise, you can continuously undercut just here locally with new college graduates or career-changers (bootcamps, etc).

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#38

Post by b3morales »

mlang23 wrote: post #24

I cant wait until I can go back to the office 100%. WFH, while convenient, is something I never wanted. I didnt want it 20 years ago when I started to work, and I dont want it full time today either, even with the covid experience. Human interaction is not tradable, and online conferencing sucks even more then a real meeting.

That's fine! (I've said this in another similar thread recently:) The push here (to the extent that it's organized) should not be "abolish offices, everyone is remote". It should be "trust people to choose the environment where they work best". If you like the office, then you should be able to choose a company that has an office for you to work in. I personally work remotely and find it suits me. But I wouldn't mind working in a hybrid situation either, where being in the office was occasional/available.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#39

Post by marcinzm »

brabel wrote: post #32
mlang23 wrote: post #24

I cant wait until I can go back to the office 100%. WFH, while convenient, is something I never wanted. I didnt want it 20 years ago when I started to work, and I dont want it full time today either, even with the covid experience. Human interaction is not tradable, and online conferencing sucks even more then a real meeting.

Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

Being the only one talking to the VPs and CEO in the office during lunch is probably going to be a great career boost. So don't be surprised when the people who go into the office get the nice promotions and you don't.

Interestingly my whole team is very much in favor of being in the office a few days a week.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#40

Post by cratermoon »

cyberlurker wrote: post #6

I actually don’t mind one way or the other, but I just want a clear rationale for over riding the employees preference. I despise the water cooler theory because I’m perfectly capable of socializing over voip or IM. I do it at work and then shortly afterwards with friends on discord. The real reasons for return to office should be tangible. If you have metrics that people are taking advantage, share them. The only th…

> I despise the water cooler theory because I’m perfectly capable of socializing over voip or IM

Different people have different work styles. The water cooler theory is predicated on random, unplanned interactions, which are much harder over those channels. At the proverbial water cooler, an employee might engage with someone they had not planned to speak with, or maybe don't even know, and get some information or connection of value. Maybe you overhear* a couple of other people talking there and you join the conversation because the subject happens to impact you. I'm not sure how well that's replicated by Discord/Slack channels.

After a year+ WFH during the Inside Times, I have come to see the value of at least quarterly, if not monthly, face-to-face team meetings or casual events. Of course, if you have employees in different cities, like west and east coast, you can't affordably meet very often.

* I would hope people would not have a conversation that should be private in a public space, so being overheard is not a bad thing.

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