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Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

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Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#21

Post by WalterBright »

xvector wrote: post #19
sam0x17 wrote: post #17

I've been working from home for the last 5 years, and I'm never going back. I get more done, I have more energy throughout the day, and it makes it much easier to put family first (which is one reason I think FANG and others are so afraid -- they lose a little bit of control).

It is most definitely a control thing. Companies are afraid to lose the iron grip they have over the lives of employees.

> iron grip

Jeez, give it a rest. Companies don't give a crap about your life. None have ever showed the slightest interest in anything I do when not at work.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#22

Post by bigmattystyles »

Ask again when the job market isn’t as good. And be careful, when layoffs come, those that aren’t seen as much will be thought off as less useful, even if it’s untrue. I’m for WFH where possible but let’s not pretend time zones and in person interactions, just to name a few benefits of colocation have no benefit or that they don’t appeal to anyone. Personally, my personality is such that I need to be at the office to be productive. I don’t actually think I’m in the minority.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#23

Post by xvector »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #11
xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

I'll be distressed if we don't have at least optional work-from-office after the pandemic. I'm vaccinated. You're vaccinated. We're all adults. The company remains in possession of empty office space. Yet most firms seem to think the best thing to do is lead from behind, wait and see, until they can protect themselves by saying "i guess everyone is doing it".

Definitely channel that distress into anger. You hold the cards. Encourage the company to change, and vote with your feet if they don’t.

WFH isn’t just a preference thing, having the option is about being treated with dignity like an adult.

We are uniquely privileged to be in an industry where leaving for better jobs is common and rather doable.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#24

Post by mlang23 »

I cant wait until I can go back to the office 100%. WFH, while convenient, is something I never wanted. I didnt want it 20 years ago when I started to work, and I dont want it full time today either, even with the covid experience. Human interaction is not tradable, and online conferencing sucks even more then a real meeting.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#25

Post by matsemann »

xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

> but management is insistent on disallowing WFH

I think a lot of management will be out of a job in the future, and they are grasping for control. Not saying we don't need managers, just that there are lots of fat that can be removed, and people have noticed lots of the managers weren't needed or invisible when WFH.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#26

Post by mensetmanusman »

Make the office worth going to. Have socials that are interesting enough to come to. Meetings all day should be done digitally since we have a globalized economy.

Organize in person events that are worth attending. Maybe we found a new purpose of management…

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#27

Post by xvector »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #22

Ask again when the job market isn’t as good. And be careful, when layoffs come, those that aren’t seen as much will be thought off as less useful, even if it’s untrue. I’m for WFH where possible but let’s not pretend time zones and in person interactions, just to name a few benefits of colocation have no benefit or that they don’t appeal to anyone. Personally, my personality is such that I need to be at the office to…

Sure, but how many years of my life will I waste, wringing my hands in fearful anticipation of when the job market tanks?

Either way, I’m fairly confident I’ll be able to get a job, or have enough saved to weather the storm. In the meantime, the sense of freedom that comes from WFH is unparalleled.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#28

Post by [deleted] »

Raed667 wrote: post #14
strgrd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hybrid model is such a joke. For most, working in the office might as well be the 21st century business suit: an antiquated formality designed to demonstrate your obedience to authority. The hybrid model is a suit on a t-shirt. And forcing employees to be in the office X days a week means productivity on those WFH days will be nonexistent, especially if they butt against a weekend. But of course while the WFH lif…

I'm struggling with the idea of hybrid WFH. It still means that I need to live near the office. Instead of a cheaper, quieter place far away from cities. Besides making middle-management happy, I'm not sure what is the benefit of having one required day per week at the office.

[deleted]

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#29

Post by k__ »

I have to admit, after I fought for remote work with a bunch of hiring managers before the pandemic, I feel quite a bit Schadenfreude right now.

Also, I think, in the long run remote work will level the playing field between introverts and extroverts quite a bit.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#30

Post by b3morales »

endymi0n wrote: post #15
xvector wrote: post #3

Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…

I hear this a lot of times recently — what I'm interested by now is where the new equilibrium will be going forward. So far us software engineers have often seen jobs as replaceable and we know we'll have another one at the snip of a finger should we quit. But with enough people actually quitting, how many remote or soon-remote companies will there be to scoop up the supply until quitting an office job cold could be…

> how many remote or soon-remote companies will there be to scoop up the supply until quitting an office job cold could be a bad decision?

We'd have to take into consideration how the demand will change at the companies who are refusing remote work right now. I'd expect that it wouldn't diminish: they will still have business goals that will require developers to fulfill. They won't suddenly say "No software people want to work for us? Eh, we don't need them anyways. Let's build toasters instead".

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