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House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

cicilline.house.gov

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Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#21

Post by throwkeep »

azinman2 wrote: post #5

> Big tech has routinely suppressed conservative voices and violated consumers’ privacy,” said Rep. Gooden. “We must rein in their destructive behavior and preserve the constitutional rights of all Americans.” First, this whole suppressing conservatives voices thing is just totally unhinged from reality. The few tiny examples of this violate clearly defined platform rules (which pale in comparison to the giant gain o…

I'm a liberal and it's clear that big tech is suppressing dissenting voices. It's not targeted at conservatives specifically, but it captures them in larger number because tech and corporate media is mostly liberal and progressive. As such, conservative is by default a dissenting voice.

Edit: See the lab leak hypothesis where big tech was suppressing and even banning people last year for questioning the approved narrative. And here's an example just yesterday with old school progressives being silenced: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27493994

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#22

Post by azinman2 »

mavelikara wrote: post #8
azinman2 wrote: post #5

> Big tech has routinely suppressed conservative voices and violated consumers’ privacy,” said Rep. Gooden. “We must rein in their destructive behavior and preserve the constitutional rights of all Americans.” First, this whole suppressing conservatives voices thing is just totally unhinged from reality. The few tiny examples of this violate clearly defined platform rules (which pale in comparison to the giant gain o…

> where not only do their tech companies have massive integration across so many products Why can't tech products have integration across each other, without tech giants buying up every small startup that comes across their way?

Because integration is very difficult to achieve in one company (just look at Google vs Apple products), let alone across multiple. I don’t see how that has anything to do with buying small startups.

However since you mentioned that, preventing M&A will not only prevent our bigger tech companies from being globally competitive by restricting their access to talent, it’ll shut off one of the main exit routes that’s made doing a startup far safer. It’ll mean failures will end up in $0 for everyone, less money in returns to a VC, which will mean less money in returns to the retirement funds and whatnot that invest in VCs (which is bad for all of our 401ks), so VCs will be even more careful about who they invest in, which means less capital going around for startups generally. That will reduce American competitiveness.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#23

Post by lotsofpulp »

mavelikara wrote: post #8
azinman2 wrote: post #5

> Big tech has routinely suppressed conservative voices and violated consumers’ privacy,” said Rep. Gooden. “We must rein in their destructive behavior and preserve the constitutional rights of all Americans.” First, this whole suppressing conservatives voices thing is just totally unhinged from reality. The few tiny examples of this violate clearly defined platform rules (which pale in comparison to the giant gain o…

> where not only do their tech companies have massive integration across so many products Why can't tech products have integration across each other, without tech giants buying up every small startup that comes across their way?

Because economies of scale, automation due to use of software, and near zero marginal costs mean the bigger you are, the more you can offer customers at a lower price.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#24

Post by Apocryphon »

neither_color wrote: post #12
azinman2 wrote: post #5

> Big tech has routinely suppressed conservative voices and violated consumers’ privacy,” said Rep. Gooden. “We must rein in their destructive behavior and preserve the constitutional rights of all Americans.” First, this whole suppressing conservatives voices thing is just totally unhinged from reality. The few tiny examples of this violate clearly defined platform rules (which pale in comparison to the giant gain o…

I won't comment on your first point but I will say it's weird you argue for private companies' rights and then use a country where most of our tech companies are de facto banned(Twitter, Facebook, Google, Instagram, Reddit, Snapchat, Pinterest, Youtube, Twitch, etc), where anonymous internet usage isn't possible(must show ID for even an internet cafe), and where mass topical censorship is legally required. What we ha…

Not to mention a country where tech moguls are under far more heat than they ever could be in this one.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27448998

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#25

Post by jeffbee »

throwkeep wrote: post #21
azinman2 wrote: post #5

> Big tech has routinely suppressed conservative voices and violated consumers’ privacy,” said Rep. Gooden. “We must rein in their destructive behavior and preserve the constitutional rights of all Americans.” First, this whole suppressing conservatives voices thing is just totally unhinged from reality. The few tiny examples of this violate clearly defined platform rules (which pale in comparison to the giant gain o…

I'm a liberal and it's clear that big tech is suppressing dissenting voices. It's not targeted at conservatives specifically, but it captures them in larger number because tech and corporate media is mostly liberal and progressive. As such, conservative is by default a dissenting voice. Edit: See the lab leak hypothesis where big tech was suppressing and even banning people last year for questioning the approved narr…

Please give us a specific example of "big tech suppressing dissenting voices". I can certainly see how you could lay that charge on the Hearst Corporation, for example, but I have a hard time seeing how it applies to companies who will record and disseminate your writings, photos, and videos worldwide without charge and almost without regard to the content thereof.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#26

Post by ABCLAW »

shakezula wrote: post #15
foolfoolz wrote: post #7

the problem with “breaking up big tech” is it only breaks up american companies. it has a long run impact of letting foreign companies take over american market share

Historically, breaking up monopolies has been very good for the end consumer. Bell Labs and Standard Oil both ended up being good things. Instead of breaking them up though, we should simply be more stringent with anti trust hearings and merger approvals. There have been a few mergers recently that absolutely shouldn’t have been approved.

>Instead of breaking them up though, we should simply be more stringent with anti trust hearings and merger approvals. There have been a few mergers recently that absolutely shouldn’t have been approved.

Recently? Competition bureaus have been green lighting consolidation in key industry sectors for bullshit reasons with bad evidence for decades.

Also, if we acknowledge that bureaus have allowed the over-consolidation of a number of industries, then why wouldn't we break them up?

The harm to competition is already done - we already have titans accumulating the lucre of uncompetitive margins. The market's health cannot be judged in respect of what margins currently are; they have to be judged in respect of what they would be under situations of proper competition.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#27

Post by azinman2 »

throwkeep wrote: post #21
azinman2 wrote: post #5

> Big tech has routinely suppressed conservative voices and violated consumers’ privacy,” said Rep. Gooden. “We must rein in their destructive behavior and preserve the constitutional rights of all Americans.” First, this whole suppressing conservatives voices thing is just totally unhinged from reality. The few tiny examples of this violate clearly defined platform rules (which pale in comparison to the giant gain o…

I'm a liberal and it's clear that big tech is suppressing dissenting voices. It's not targeted at conservatives specifically, but it captures them in larger number because tech and corporate media is mostly liberal and progressive. As such, conservative is by default a dissenting voice. Edit: See the lab leak hypothesis where big tech was suppressing and even banning people last year for questioning the approved narr…

https://medium.com/cybersecurity-for-democracy/far-right-new...

Where is the evidence? Because by in large, the use and effectiveness of these platforms in study after study goes the other way.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#28

Post by rossjudson »

shakezula wrote: post #15
foolfoolz wrote: post #7

the problem with “breaking up big tech” is it only breaks up american companies. it has a long run impact of letting foreign companies take over american market share

Historically, breaking up monopolies has been very good for the end consumer. Bell Labs and Standard Oil both ended up being good things. Instead of breaking them up though, we should simply be more stringent with anti trust hearings and merger approvals. There have been a few mergers recently that absolutely shouldn’t have been approved.

I wish basic IRS functions could be get the same level of attention as these efforts. What would be particularly good for consumers would be bringing some level of fairness to the tax system.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#29

Post by jayd16 »

rblatz wrote: post #16
jayd16 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the premise is it makes the companies stronger through competition, this isn't a concern, right?

That isn’t the premise at all. It makes the market stronger through competition. Typically it makes the company itself weaker since it no longer can leverage power in one market to corner another.

We agree. I said companies, plural, as a whole as in the whole economy.

Re: House lawmakers release anti-monopoly agenda for “a stronger online economy”

#30

Post by zozbot234 »

foolfoolz wrote: post #7

the problem with “breaking up big tech” is it only breaks up american companies. it has a long run impact of letting foreign companies take over american market share

Antitrust enforcement on large platforms should be done by enforcing vertical separation and interoperability, not by simple breakup. Even the AT&T breakup didn't create a plurality of incompatible landline networks; the resulting companies were all connected in a single phone network, and could seamlessly interoperate. A large interoperable platform can easily preserve its total market share over any foreign competitor aspiring to a monopoly of their own, since it derives greater benefits from network effects.
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