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I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

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251–260 of 435 posts

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#251
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In retrospect, the old internet had plenty of derisiveness, toward targets like religion or copyright. Many of the loudest voices switched to today's morality movement without skipping a beat.

That's because the social justice movement is a religion. No one calls it this but the tell tail sign is you can't debate this issues with facts. Climate change has produced their own religious zealots.

It’s not true that “no one” calls it that. That’s, in fact, one of the most shopworn arguments against it and one I come across nearly every day.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#252

I just watched Inside [1], where Bo Burnham creates a wonderful, funny, sad and thought-provoking "Special" about our internet culture. Highly recommended. This is one of my favourite songs now: [2] It's a bit crazy when I think about how different our generations grow up and it makes me a bit sad that our children will have a completely different understanding of what the internet is. For me it was a place of wonder…

> it definitely lost some if it's playfulness on the way

Kids seem to be having fun on TikTok. The obvious issue is I wouldn't call it a place of freedom.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#253
post #206

I think it's easy to forget we're not the same people we were 20-25 years ago. I see all sorts of lamentations about various things in the world changing and becoming less magical. But as far as I'm aware, I could still go and argue about bands in chatrooms. I could talk to other writers and dream about my future best-selling novels. I could go read random opinions about any subject and get into an exhilarating flame…

Firstly I strongly agree with everything you said and also just wanted to say this was a very eloquent description that i hope i remember a year from now. I wanted to suggest a kind of alternative for discussion. I think there was something magical about the early web in that it offered a new way of interacting with the world that did not previously exist. It was difficult or impossible to find people that shared my…

> When i read on HN and realize just how many people there are like me, or that there’s people that are also way too into disc golf, acoustic guitar, or any other semi niche activity i wonder why it is so hard to make more regular connections and interactions with them.

That hit me in the truth. I feel like that a lot: if I know these people exist, and care deeply about the things I care about, why am I not building lasting friendships with them?

And then I realize that it's not a flaw in the medium but in myself. I lack the confidence and determination to go form those connections. I could write to any of those people and say, hey, I'm coming through Cincinnati, and would love to see your project/talk with you over coffee about your research/drink beer and yell about liberty. But I don't, and that isn't the internet's fault.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#254
post #206

I think it's easy to forget we're not the same people we were 20-25 years ago. I see all sorts of lamentations about various things in the world changing and becoming less magical. But as far as I'm aware, I could still go and argue about bands in chatrooms. I could talk to other writers and dream about my future best-selling novels. I could go read random opinions about any subject and get into an exhilarating flame…

As far as I'm concerned it has nothing to do with joy. The internet enables a lot of things that can improve human knowledge and prowess. It also enables the opposite. This has always been the case, but I think the hindrances are progressing faster than the helpers.

Here are a couple of the best things that I think the internet provides, both of which have been around basically since its inception:

1. Instant communication ie. email and instant messaging

2. Free sharing of knowledge ie. scholarly articles, and yes, Wikipedia

If you have an Android phone and have ever used the Google news feed (from AMP), then you've seen what I think are the worst parts of the internet today. As far as I know it's grown more and more prolific over the years:

I'm talking about content that's created solely as a vehicle for advertising. It's either speculation (which may provide some value) or simply "reporting" on information that has changed hands many times. In other words, while the original source might be available on the internet, you will never find it because it's been re-reported by ten thousand other sources that all want a slice of the ad revenue.

Proliferation of misinformation, both accidental and intentional, goes along with the above, though there are other opportunities for this as well (like social media).

There are countless pros and cons that I don't even know about of come in contact with, but I would agree on the whole with the idea that the internet is a poorer tool for good than it was, at least 15 years ago, and probably 20 as well.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Includes the very worst part of echo chambering though. Don’t like someone OR their comment? Just do your part with three other people and it’ll be faded, once it’s faded other people will join in hiding the bad man who said the bad thing - and gone! No more contrarian opinion, we protected other people! Everyone agrees now. How wonderful.

How ironic. I agree, downvote-based discussions invariably lead to echo chambers / monocultures. See the dumpster fire that are reddit comments. At least on old-time forums there was no such bullshit (except post count :)).

[deleted]

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly I strongly agree with everything you said and also just wanted to say this was a very eloquent description that i hope i remember a year from now. I wanted to suggest a kind of alternative for discussion. I think there was something magical about the early web in that it offered a new way of interacting with the world that did not previously exist. It was difficult or impossible to find people that shared my…

> When i read on HN and realize just how many people there are like me, or that there’s people that are also way too into disc golf, acoustic guitar, or any other semi niche activity i wonder why it is so hard to make more regular connections and interactions with them. That hit me in the truth. I feel like that a lot: if I know these people exist, and care deeply about the things I care about, why am I not building…

I used to do it a lot, it was great. So many people I’ve met IRL just as I had a perfect job where I was always going to random places.

The first time it was weird, I was going to meet this girl on irc about some forum drama, and it felt even more silly telling customs. But we had a fun night and I realised that people have weird fringe interests and that there is literally dozens of us.

It’s never too late

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#257
post #240
post #206

I think it's easy to forget we're not the same people we were 20-25 years ago. I see all sorts of lamentations about various things in the world changing and becoming less magical. But as far as I'm aware, I could still go and argue about bands in chatrooms. I could talk to other writers and dream about my future best-selling novels. I could go read random opinions about any subject and get into an exhilarating flame…

>I think it's easy to forget we're not the same people we were 20-25 years ago. I see all sorts of lamentations about various things in the world changing and becoming less magical. But as far as I'm aware, I could still go and [...] I don't want to do any of those things. I'm in my 40s and I have 3 kids. The internet 15-year-old me experienced was magical because _I_ was a blank slate. Thank you for writing that. I…

Time scales too. Remember how long the death March to Chicago was? It was 1993 and NT had finally shipped, Linux was slightly useful and this was OS/2’s era to shine as Microsoft had stagnated with no consumer releases of any meaning post Windows 3.1. 1993 finished, and 1994 came and went as well. IBM pushed out Warp as this was their chance to arrive early, and then it was late summer of 1995 that Chicago finally shipped.

Now look at the window of the MacPro 2013 to 2020. And it felt like nothing. How long has Windows 10 been a thing? Feels like only yesterday we finally moved all production off of Linux 2.6

Time really telescopes

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#258
post #34

I miss text. It seems now that whenever I search for 'how to do X?' there is a lot of video results for sometimes very trivial things. A 10 minutes video with the usual 'subscribe and hit the bell icon', a word from the sponsor, a long winded introduction and then "click on menu, then click on this item, then select the size".

Worse still, a lot of those videos are simply a content-creator (as opposed to an expert in the subject matter) teaching you how to do something that they learned how to do from another video (possibly by an expert).

Trying to learn how to do household stuff on YouTube is full of comically bad or dangerous advice with millions of views. Thankfully this Old House has uploaded their back catalog and the comment sections of videos usually has rational insight from people claiming to be tradesmen.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#259

I actually enjoy today's Internet much more. I'll lay out the reasons: 1) Easy access to many high quality contents. For example HN is a good platform for accessing new knowledge. Note that I say "access", not "learn". Reading HN sometimes give people the false impression that they are learning new knowledge, which usually is not the case. I treat HN as a platform to get a peek at certain new knowledge, but reading b…

The early internet did #3 much better than today. I'm still a member of a ~50 member forum that's been going for 20 years, and the ability to discuss nuanced topics is much better than it is here, even if the average quality of the persons themselves are much better here.

A key reason this is because of "weirdness budgets". If I independently arrive at a solution and try to communicate that to you, the more work it takes to verify(so I can easily tell you some prime factors, but not say uhh.. UFOs exist) the result and the more different it is from your prior, the less likely it is to succeed.

This is magnified by the n ( n - 1) / 2 cost of communications, where n is the number of people. We all have different norms, and it's nearly impossible to work out where another persons norm is within a single comment, so mostly people surpass your weirdness budget and you ignore them.

This means that we can only meaningfully talk about things that the general public are on the same phase of. This is just another way to state the Overton window. But now that we understand what creates the Overton window, we can attempt to evaluate what we can do to mitigate it.

Now when we evaluate Facebook, reddit, YouTube comments, HN, message boards, BBS, and 1720 Venice coffee shops we can see them for what they are. The more you bump into the same people, the more nuance you can find. Nuance is where the insights really come from. No one can work it out themselves.

Another depressing reality is that when you do find a tight-nit community that is able to create these insights, all you have done is segmented yourself from the general public's Overton window. Now your just another weird LISPer, and the Java programmers that have libraries and drivers behind their projects will run circles around you even though you are correct. Correctness isn't enough.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#260
post #34

I miss text. It seems now that whenever I search for 'how to do X?' there is a lot of video results for sometimes very trivial things. A 10 minutes video with the usual 'subscribe and hit the bell icon', a word from the sponsor, a long winded introduction and then "click on menu, then click on this item, then select the size".

Or text that is preceded by pages of phony life-stories.
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