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Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

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Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#281

Post by webmobdev »

JimDabell wrote: post #150
webmobdev wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there ever a time that you could develop software for Mac or particularly iOS and distribute it without paying the developer license fee? As I have said in my original post, that's the point it started going downhill for us developers on the macOS and ios platform; and as Apple continues to further abuse its position, it's time to say a clear no to their regressive and exploitive practices. And as I have said els…

> that's the point it started going downhill for us developers on the macOS and iOS platform The only developers on the iPhoneOS platform at that point worked for Apple, or jailbroke and used reverse engineered APIs, or built web applications. You seem to be implying that there was some happy era of open native iPhone application development before Apple ruined it all with the App Store, but that’s simply not true.

You are just just talking in circles to confuse the issue -

The major point is that just because Apple is now able to abuse their control over the ios platform (and now mac too), developers (and consumers) should not be willing to submit to such exploitation.

A smart phone is a general purpose computer, with built-in telephony. We use it like any other computer to do multiple tasks. Developers and consumers have always been free to develop or install on computers in the last few decades before Apple, after its popularity with the ios platform, decided to abuse its control and removed this option after finding a business model to further exploit developers and its consumers.

To be clear - just because some exploitive business practice has gained ground, doesn't mean we developers and consumers have to continue to accept it as some kind of new normal practice. If you don't think the current practice is abusive and exploitive to developers and consumers, then please present your argument for the same as that is what we are discussing here.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#282

Post by seszett »

killjoywashere wrote: post #216
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also "noun" verbs. One I hear in SV is "an ask". I find myself a bit peeved by it but I don't know why.

You’re peeved by “ask” as a noun?! How the hell is “math” plural?! Why maths? The subject (singular) is math (singular). Do you study Englishes? Anthropologies? Medicines?

Mathematics are plural because it's a group of several disciplines, arithmetic and geometry today (music and astronomy used to be two other math branches in the past). It's actually an adjective that became a noun, so these four were the disciplines mathématiques, becoming simply les mathématiques later on.

At least that's why it's plural in French. I wouldn't be surprised if the English term is plural simply because it comes from French.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#283

Post by webmobdev »

mrtksn wrote: post #224
musicale wrote: post #49

Apple PR: > we do not advantage our apps over those of any developer or competitor Apple employee Debankur Naskar: > I think the Files app was manually boosted ... during last WWDC. We are removing the manual boost So which of these is true? Or is PR technically correct because they do not currently "advantage" their apps?

Isn't it obvious? They say they don't give advantage to their own apps as a company policy but they made exception to this during an event. The follow up e-mails indicate that the upper management wasn't happy about this and demanded high level approval before this happens next time. So it's not really evil Apple caught doing something that they say they don't. Its more like corrupt Apple where someone did something…

    Surely the company is responsible for the actions of their employees but there's a distinction between company policy and individuals actions.
And the well-made arguments you have presented is how corporates regularly abuse this "distinction" between company policy and individual action when caught - it was not us, it was this guy. Plausible deniability is standard tactic of management. I would be more willing to accept your version if Apple took public punitive actions against the employees responsible here.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#284

Post by webmobdev »

Razengan wrote: post #251
heavyset_go wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mac software and app industry has died. Even after notarising apps they show malicious popup to users. I maintain a handful of open source apps for macOS, and have for years. If I don't pay the $100 Apple tax, macOS will treat those apps as if they're radioactive, and it will trick users into believing the apps are either broken or malicious. In order to run them, users must know how to change arcane settings and d…

> If I don't pay the $100 Apple tax Please. If you can’t make enough in an entire damn year to cover that $100, you need to look at what you’re doing. Hell I’ve seen obscure open source projects get more than $100 in donations every single month. If people see any value in your work, then that $100 is not a barrier at all.

You make a good point for commercial products. But what about open source or closed source softwares that the developer wants to distribute for free?

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#285

Post by webmobdev »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #198
codesternews wrote: post #28

Apple has made life of small developers hard. Mac software and app industry has died. Even after notarising apps they show malicious popup to users. Same practices has adapted by apple like search ad etc etc. They make competing services and steal ideas of developers and those app dies. For eg screen time for Moments app. They have unfair advantage and small developers could not complete. Only handful of indie develo…

Interesting take. I felt developers, by racing to the bottom on price, killed themselves. When a neighbor I did not even really know (and this was perhaps close to 10 years ago) told me she never buys apps anymore, she only downloads the free ones, I knew the jig was up.

Note that Apple and Google are also behind this partly, as they also own advertising networks and thus support and promote adware apps on their platform. Most adware apps are free because they are ad supported.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#286

Post by JimDabell »

webmobdev wrote: post #281
JimDabell wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's the point it started going downhill for us developers on the macOS and iOS platform The only developers on the iPhoneOS platform at that point worked for Apple, or jailbroke and used reverse engineered APIs, or built web applications. You seem to be implying that there was some happy era of open native iPhone application development before Apple ruined it all with the App Store, but that’s simply not true.

You are just just talking in circles to confuse the issue - The major point is that just because Apple is now able to abuse their control over the ios platform (and now mac too), developers (and consumers) should not be willing to submit to such exploitation . A smart phone is a general purpose computer, with built-in telephony. We use it like any other computer to do multiple tasks. Developers and consumers have alw…

I’m not talking in circles, I’m directly contradicting one very simple thing you are saying. Throughout this thread you are talking as if gatekeeping access to a platform is something novel that Apple brought into the world with the App Store, before which all development – including iOS and Android development – were open. That is simply wrong.

iPhone development was never open; Apple did not “remove this option”. No Android phone was available to the public before the App Store launched. Apple were by no means the first to act as gatekeepers for a platform; this is something that has been commonplace for decades. This is not a business practice that has “gained ground”; it is something that has been with us for a very long time before the App Store existed. The App Store is a continuation of a theme that has existed and thrived for decades.

If you want to argue that it’s no good – that’s fine, make that argument. But don’t rest it on a foundation of “everything was open and good before Apple created the App Store” because it’s simply factually untrue.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#287

Post by sqqqqrly »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #168
mercer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much as I tend to be in favor of language evolving, I react almost viscerally to 'compute' as a noun. It is a major irk.

When people say they grok something it hurts me deep inside.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/grok#etymonline_v_14297

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#289

Post by egypturnash »

SalimoS wrote: post #258
egypturnash wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you dig down the email chain PDF you get to email from the head of Epic bitching about how a search for “Fortnite” comes up with ads for competitors first. He then goes on to use the ad for Files that showed up at the top of a search for “Dropbox” as another example. Half the time when I search for any app on the iOS store I get an ad for a knockoff at the top of the search, barely noted as an ad, this is a big pr…

> barely noted as an ad I don’t know what version you use but in iOS 14 the ad is clearly mentioned and the ad element have a distinct light blue background and all the other elements have w white color !

Oh, I guess that’s improved then. Yay! I’ve basically quit updating anything lately, iOS and MacOS do everything I need and new versions just break shit and push developers towards replacing what used to work with slow, underfeatured Electron crap.

Still a goddamn pain in the ass. No I don’t want Obvious Ripoff or Close Competitor, I want Actual Thing That I Typed In.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#290

Post by mrtksn »

webmobdev wrote: post #283
mrtksn wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it obvious? They say they don't give advantage to their own apps as a company policy but they made exception to this during an event. The follow up e-mails indicate that the upper management wasn't happy about this and demanded high level approval before this happens next time. So it's not really evil Apple caught doing something that they say they don't. Its more like corrupt Apple where someone did something…

Surely the company is responsible for the actions of their employees but there's a distinction between company policy and individuals actions. And the well-made arguments you have presented is how corporates regularly abuse this "distinction" between company policy and individual action when caught - it was not us, it was this guy . Plausible deniability is standard tactic of management. I would be more willing to ac…

That depends on the interpretation og the data available. From the published e-mails, my understanding is that an action was taken to stop and prevent it from happening again before the incident was made public which I would interpret as Apple doesn't do it as a company policy.

Of course someone can claim that these were sham mails designed to make upper management look good despite not having any indications whatsoever to support that. I've heard that the world is only 4000 years old and the god put dinosaur fossils to confuse us, therefore I'm willing to accept that people are going to believe whatever they would like to believe.

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