Live data from Hacker News

I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

sffworld.com

101–110 of 435 posts

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#101
post #64

Sadly, it’s the people. The old internet had a filtering function where, because it was harder to use, people had to have some interest or skill to use it. So as a result, I think the proportion of people “online” had similar interest so more content was relevant and made by similar people. Now everyone is online with more diverse interests and capabilities.

Not quite. Companies decided to monetize the internet, and because they want to earn all the money in the world, they want as many people as possible to use the internet. So they dumb it down to make it "easier to use".

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#102

Admittedly, I miss the “old internet” too, however I have hope we can build it again. As I see it, there are two main issues to solve: 1) It’s no longer trivial to build a “home” page that fits one’s diverse interests. People are lured into frameworks which prescribe a certain level of structure. How do we make it easy for people to freely add content to their “pages” , in whatever form they envision? 2) The “early”…

> 1) It’s no longer trivial to build a “home” page that fits one’s diverse interests. People are lured into frameworks which prescribe a certain level of structure. How do we make it easy for people to freely add content to their “pages” , in whatever form they envision?

In the olden days, you were either affiliated with a university or you signed up to Geocities. Nowadays, you can go to WordPress and add your fill of content pages: it's not just a blog. I'm pretty sure the modern web is a win for ease of access to genuine user-controlled pages. Probably you had more control over the skin of a GeoCities site than a free WordPress page, but I'm not sure to what extent or how important that is.

I think the issue here is more that people don't just want to make content - they want to have readers. You're more likely to get and know about your readers if you post on Facebook or Twitter than if you post on WordPress.

> 2) The “early” internet (or what is left of it) is largely outranked now, as the methods by which we discover new information has been heavily commoditized by industry.

I think this is important. The modern web doesn't provide discoverability to independent content produced in good faith. Either you have to agree to donate it to Facebook or you need to do a lot of work drumming it up. Google become popular because it cared more about the content than the primitive SEO, and the web was small enough you could plausibly use dmoz.org to browse the internet. Now, advanced SEO is better than any search engine algorithm and there's too much godawful content to be excited to read content without some kind of active recommendation.

> A truly decentralized internet experience has the potential to foster diversity, but our best and brightest are figuring out how to capture this value with variations of digital signatures rather than novel and groundbreaking tech.

I recall another article posted here a few weeks ago, where the author argued that centralisation dominates over decentralisation. But the argument in this place (at least till I went to bed) was that because there was technical decentralisation, there was no centralisation.

I don't know which view represents the mainstream view of technical people today, just which view seemed to have the most advocates while I was reading the thread.

What I do know is that it seems hopeless to me to hope that our best and brightest will help decentralise the internet again. I think the Gemini project has it right when they do whatever they can. I wish it were more prosocial though; it mostly consists of isolated gemlogs without the opportunity to reply. (I mean, you can reply, but all you're doing is posting a new page. If the person to whom you are replying doesn't know you from a loaf of bread, it's more practical to just go wash the dishes. If someone wants to correct me, by all means: I'm all ears.)

Btw, I don't want to imply that the Gemini folk aren't the best and brightest: Just that the path to a decentralised internet is the same as the path to free software - wearing the straitjacket and doing the work. And even then, it's easily lost. How much centralised, non-free software do we all use even if we've never installed it!

I think the main problem to solve is interaction without inauthentic action (spam). Centralised systems allow one person to cut off the spammer once, and that stops them from affecting everyone. If you imagine a decentralised gem/weblogging network with a reply facility, then if you write a logpost (on a log hosted on your own computer) and send a trackback to mine (on a log hosted on my own computer), then I probably consider that interesting. But if now a spammer writes a logpost and sends a trackback to yours, you need a way to cancel that. And once you've cancelled them, they can still post to mine! Each spammer will annoy each logposter as many times as they can get around the spam protection: it's an exponential problem. With a centralised system, once you've cancelled them, they are much more likely to encounter difficulty trying to trackback to my log: it's a linear problem - or even less.

The other issues are probably surmountable - it shouldn't be impossible to create a decentralised network of posts and replies and threads that can be viewed together. It probably starts with something more like RSS than Usenet.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#103
post #86
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to distill four decades of "mass Internet" transformation into one phrase: Independent creator culture (1980-2000), converted into mass consumer culture (2000-2010), and then back into taxed creator culture within walled ecosystems (2010-2020).

I think all of that independent creator culture is still out there, there's just also the mass consumer culture and walled ecosystems on top. It's a relatively insignificant proportion of things now, but big networks seem to be what most people are looking for.

Not all. While commercialization of the creator culture undoubtedly has some benefits, it also kills some of its original "soul".

Someone making funny videos on the internet on their free time without any kind of expectation to make money out of it unavoidably produces different results than the same person making semi-professional videos on Youtube and making living out of it. If the latter is an option, why the hell would the said person do the former? But since the latter option exists, it drives all of the creations to more professional, less quirky direction. It's the same effect that causes all the Hollywood films to have pretty much the same story arc and all the big budget games to feel like copies of each other.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#104

This sentiment of missing an older internet is one reason like like Hacker News. Slash dot was great in the day. Digg was so great in the day. Then the early days of Reddit were great. I’ve been her for over ten years and Hacker News is still good. So thank you to the team that runs Hacker News and everyone who comments for making it a good place to come to.

I actually found HN quite late (a few years ago) and was pleasantly surprised how well the spirit of the old Reddit and Slashdot lives on here.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#106
post #39

It’s like nostalgia for old TV shows. You have found memories but then when you watch them again they were really crap. I also remember images rendering line by line, expensive phone bills, crashy browsers, popup storms, going through 15 pages of altavista results before finding something useful, etc

I'm not sure why you're downvoted, whatever there was, it was also abused or shit. Spam everywhere, banners as annoying as ever, the nice insights in forums buried between low-effort one-liners and the trendy extra spacious forum signatures, and you couldn't do much against the flashing banners because adblocking was hit or miss.

It's not like I don't empathize. But one needs to realize that this is a specific thing, it's a human experience, shared across time and culture.

Oh yeah and the popups and the pop-unders can rot in hell. I can't believe how long it took for developers to control the situation.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#107
post #34

I miss text. It seems now that whenever I search for 'how to do X?' there is a lot of video results for sometimes very trivial things. A 10 minutes video with the usual 'subscribe and hit the bell icon', a word from the sponsor, a long winded introduction and then "click on menu, then click on this item, then select the size".

I almost never watch videos, unless it's the necessary medium for the context (i.e. music teaching or movie analysis), because I _need_ text to learn.

But.

Two weeks ago there was a small video on Discord that crashed the client when you played it. Here's a 8m30s long video explaining how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuBNQ6tiNcI

tl;dw: they used ffmpeg to stitch 2 videos with a different aspect ratio together, so it crashes chromium. That's the whole explanation, and this guy spends SIX MINUTES of blowing hot air before getting to the point. It's absolutely infuriating, I genuinely felt robbed of my time.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#108
I believe the main reason the internet has turned out this way is because of flawed economic incentives. It's a winner take all game ruled mostly by American corporations. The individual blogger, Usenet contributor, IRC moderator, or open source software creator never got a piece of the cake. As the internet became mainstream, the incentives to engage in these kind of activities vanished.

I hate to be the guy to bring up crypto since it never ends well on HN, but I believe that if the internet had had a "payment layer" that rewards early users from the start it would've turned out very differently.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#109
post #89

Remember the “back in my days” talk about some old stuff that you didn’t know or fully care about, or in some rare cases sparked some curiosity? Time is brutal and some of us have become that old dude. Scary. Cycle of life and evolution vs. nostalgia I guess. I’m cuttently soldering a rs-232 to wifi modem ( https://subethasoftware.com/2018/02/28/wire-up-your-own-rs-2... ) to get my amigas back online. Pimiga is nice…

That's a nice hack. Also, if you can power it from somewhere, you can use a bare ESP8266 module and put it in the serial enclosure to make it fully self-contained.

Re: I Miss the Old Internet (2019)

#110
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been playing with the idea of making good old internet portal. A curated list of links to the good stuff. No FB, medium, Instagram or anything like that.

So who takes on the full-time job of curation? Could probably get donations eventually, but the portal would have to sufficiently succeed first.

Yeah, that would be the hard part. But in the spirit of the old internet, make it first and then, if it becomes popular, deal with it.

Just have to read up on the history of Yahoo and watch that last season of Halt & Catch Fire. ;-)

Post reply on HN