Live data from Hacker News

Win at Risk by using systems thinking

thesystemisdown.substack.com

221–230 of 242 posts

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#221
This author doesn't have much experience with competitive gaming and it's quite obvious. This is only a strategy he devised to play against his friends and relatives, most probably. He assumes a lot of player behavior, and what other explanation could there be? His bathtub example is very bad because there ain't no players, and when there's players the meta absolutely depends upon who you are playing against. there's not such a thing as an optimal universal strategy at all, in fact it makes a player predictable and low-skilled in most competitive games.

Systems thinking without game philosophy understanding is very shallow.

To illustrate my point of the strategy being entirely reliant upon opponents (meta): in cs:go, most unexperienced players will go through a hot spot (that's probably being targeted by pre-positioned opponents) without jumping, making themselves easy targets. this is the behavior you will find in low ranks. eventually, some of the players will learn that jumping may be a good tactic in these situations instead, to make it harder for opponents to hit headshot, and behavior becomes very common in mid-ranks. Eventually, though, mid-rank players will start to notice this tendency to jumping, and will position their crosshairs looking for a jumping headshot - they will progress in rank by doing so. At high-ranks, however, a lot of times it is expected that your opponent will be waiting for a jumping cross, and therefore the low-rank behavior would be the best one: don't jump. In conclusion, it's impossible to point out the best possible behavior without knowing who you're playing against and their skill in the game.

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#222

This article suggests that you should not play too aggressive and not take continents too early (maximizing Reinforcing Feedback), because other players will then unite against you (Balancing Feedback). However, this article fails to understand that in Risk, most players are not willing to unite. In fact, if player A and player B decide to unite against me and player A had his turn and stopped me, player B is highly…

This reminds me of Master of Orion 2, a game I have spent countless hours on.

My typical strategy depends on chosen race and other game configurations, but I tend to prefer a slower pace. Peacefully building my empire while focusing mainly on research and trying to build strong relations with other races.

However, on the hardest difficulty (called "Impossible") the only way I ever win is playing with extreme aggression and conquering everything in reach with force as quickly as possible.

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with the term "right of way"? The complaint isn't about a friendly wave. The complaint is that it's someone's turn to go, and instead of going they wave at someone else to insist the other person go out of turn. The wave is an insistence of "you go first", not a greeting or a thanks.

I do this quite frequently with bicycles caught between lanes. Yes, it annoys the people behind me. But it still improves the situation considerably. Traffic isn't just 'other cars'.

Do you stop on the roundabout to let cyclists enter the roundabout?

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... waving just mean thanking by a move of the hand no ? How is that related to moving or not. Hell, doing it is even an official recommendation in my country: https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Archives/Archives-publicati... ("faites un petit signe de la main" = to wave)

Are you familiar with the term "right of way"? The complaint isn't about a friendly wave. The complaint is that it's someone's turn to go, and instead of going they wave at someone else to insist the other person go out of turn. The wave is an insistence of "you go first", not a greeting or a thanks.

I'm not, and after checking the website of multiple driving schools in my country, I guess this is a fairly deep cultural difference - they all mention that you can always let the other driver go first by courtesy, and that adaptation to the situation overrides the base ruleset.

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with the term "right of way"? The complaint isn't about a friendly wave. The complaint is that it's someone's turn to go, and instead of going they wave at someone else to insist the other person go out of turn. The wave is an insistence of "you go first", not a greeting or a thanks.

I'm not, and after checking the website of multiple driving schools in my country, I guess this is a fairly deep cultural difference - they all mention that you can always let the other driver go first by courtesy, and that adaptation to the situation overrides the base ruleset.

The issue is that very often it would only take you a couple seconds to go through anyway, so you end up forcing the other person to adapt in a way that leaves everyone either the same or delayed.

There are definitely places where letting someone go is appropriate, especially if it's leaving a gap so they can make a turn. But if you're on a road and you have to wave them through then most of the time you're not actually helping, and fake-helping is an annoying thing.

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#226

In our gaming group, we decided Risk just isn't that good of a game. It's old and clunky and extremely long, there are 100 other better board games now. Our main plays have been Dominion, DnD, Gloomhaven, Wingspan, and Crokinole, all of which we greatly prefer.

Chess is an awesome game too. Nearly no end to getting good at it, either.

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#227
post #161
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risk Legacy (2011) is ranked in position 368. So if that list is of any use, then this variation of the classic Risk must be immensely better! To be honest I'm curious. The description of the game seems to imply that the game itself changes every time you play it, because some of the cards used should then be destroyed and thrown away from the game box, never to be used again. That, and the game concept covers comple…

Do people actual follow those Legacy game rules that try to trick you into destroying the game?

I've played Pandemic Legacy through with a group of friends, and yes we did everything by the book. It's one of my most memorable board game experiences, full recommendation. Got more value for money than with any other of my board games.

We started season 2 too, but ironically that was disrupted by the pandemic.

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#228
post #137
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate hate HATE that behavior. Games are games. Obviously you can be unnecessarily rude or cruel in a way that will sour someone's taste for playing with you or playing the game again. But the point of games is to win. When people refuse to act in their best interest or are "nice" its so frustrating because it makes the entire game pointless. edit: In a way, it feels like people who wave you on when they have the ri…

I like the ones who stop to wave you out into traffic, not realizing they're only one lane on a 4-lane road, so you can't go without getting hit by at least one of three other cars, and the backup they've now caused behind themselves has closed the entry window you were about to have if they'd just picked "smart" over "nice." I'm as skeptical about the appropriateness of rules as it comes, but a surprising number of…

What some people don't understand is that the main factor in having traffic flow nicely is being able to accurately predict what other vehicles are going to do

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#229
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do this quite frequently with bicycles caught between lanes. Yes, it annoys the people behind me. But it still improves the situation considerably. Traffic isn't just 'other cars'.

Do you stop on the roundabout to let cyclists enter the roundabout?

No. That is a net negative. But a cyclist in an unsafe position should be given a path to safety regardless of what happens to other traffic. A cyclist that is not on a roundabout yet is perfectly safe, and stopping traffic on a roundabout to yield to traffic that does not have right of way is not ok.

Re: Win at Risk by using systems thinking

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the point of games is to win Different people, or groups, play games for different reasons: * Sublimate conflicts (it's probably better than physical fighting) * Learn / hone skills * Feel personal challenge, tension, suspense * Passing the time. * Experience other players' "game-table-side banter" * Attention diverter from munching snacks. * Making a romantic pass at another player (it's been known to happen!)…

See also the investigation of So Long Sucker in The Trap. Quoting Wikipedia: >The programme traces the development of game theory, with particular reference to the work of John Nash [...] He invented system games that reflected his beliefs about human behaviour, including one he called 'Fuck You Buddy' (later published as "So Long Sucker"), in which the only way to win was to betray your playing partner, and it is fr…

> He invented system games that reflected his beliefs about human behaviour, including one he called 'Fuck You Buddy'

Such a beautiful mind :-(

Post reply on HN