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Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

economist.com

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Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#161

Post by pjc50 »

mc32 wrote: post #14

What's a bit ironic to me is that this extension of US cultural hegemony used to be derided as cultural imperialism back a few decades ago before other cultural exports became vogue (Anime, K-Pop, etc.) when it was the US vs everyone else. But now, many of the people who would have decried this kind of hegemonic influence delight in it. They delight in the fact we can establish norms for communication and discourse n…

> Can you imagine corporate policy of SF or Menlo Park sets what people in Mumbai or Seoul can discuss regarding SARS-Cov-2?

The thing is, for most countries, having the US policy has been far more liberal than what's allowed to be discussed locally. And the set of things you can discuss on social media is far broader than what you can get into the local media discussion. Having SF set policy has (mostly) been amazing for queer liberation, for example.

The downside is incredibly loud, toxic, inorganic propaganda wars. And it really does spread everywhere. I have NYT, WSJ, and Bloomberg blocked on Twitter and still have a very up to date sense of what's happening in US politics. And suddenly there's a big anti-"woke" movement in the UK without anyone bothering to define what they think "woke" is.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#163

Post by systemvoltage »

nickelpro wrote: post #158
systemvoltage wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you’re saying is true - We have the choice to pick another platform. But, I fear they’ll shut it down just like they did with Parlor. Besides the choice of what platform to choose, people’s lives destroyed by Twitter mob whether they have a Twitter account or not. This is just not right. Activism by cancelling people. If you’ve got issue with someone, go through the proper channels and not publicly. Ther…

Ya man, that's social structures and public life. That's humanity. Twitter's got nothing to do with it, it's just the latest platform. Before Jack Dorsey and Twitter it was Cronkite on CBS, before Cronkite it was Pulitzer, Hearst, and their newpapers, and before them it was the Church. At least now you've got your choice of platforms, just because some movements on some of the popular ones don't align with your perso…

I don’t know. I used to think social media has connected people but last 5 years of it - these platforms are creating a new compliance culture that deeply bothers me. I don’t even care about people wasting their time and adtech, fundamentally it’s creating divisiveness and eroding freedom of expression (of course not strictly, but implicitly the chilling effect is real).

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#164

Post by odiroot »

naruvimama wrote: post #79
mc32 wrote: post #14

What's a bit ironic to me is that this extension of US cultural hegemony used to be derided as cultural imperialism back a few decades ago before other cultural exports became vogue (Anime, K-Pop, etc.) when it was the US vs everyone else. But now, many of the people who would have decried this kind of hegemonic influence delight in it. They delight in the fact we can establish norms for communication and discourse n…

For some of us from excolonies, this is starting to feel like neocolonialism. We see our elected leaders bending the knee to the new east India company. It looks like we have been recolonised before we could decolonise.

> For some of us from excolonies, this is starting to feel like neocolonialism.

Then imagine how it feels for people in countries that were never a western colony -- quite the opposite, under Russia's shoe.

It's like, if some aliens from another descended upon us and forced their morals.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#165

Post by pembrook »

i5heu wrote: post #42

Somewhat off topic but: Is there an frontend for hacker news,twitter or reddit that filters out all the US political and culture stuff? I really can't see more of this failed civilization that has the power to vaporize the earth in hours. I don't want to be reminded every single day.

It’s astonishing to me how little international competition there is in the social space (outside of China). You’re complaining about US platforms while implicitly acknowledging they are the best place you have to find interesting discussions online.

It’s like the internet came along, offering opportunities to build these businesses to anyone in the world at super low cost, and most countries stuck their heads in the sand and said, “nah, this social media stuff is a fad, let’s stick to car manufacturing.” 10 years later the world is somehow under the “control” of US platforms? Huh?

Did you know HN/Twitter/Reddit are websites you can just choose not to type into your address bar?

Instead of complaining about the world you helped create, why not try changing it by starting a social platform for your local market and in your local language? These are all just simple CRUD apps.

There’s about 600 “build a Reddit clone” YouTube tutorials you could follow to build the same thing as HN/Reddit/Twitter from a technical perspective.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#166

Post by i5heu »

pembrook wrote: post #165
i5heu wrote: post #42

Somewhat off topic but: Is there an frontend for hacker news,twitter or reddit that filters out all the US political and culture stuff? I really can't see more of this failed civilization that has the power to vaporize the earth in hours. I don't want to be reminded every single day.

It’s astonishing to me how little international competition there is in the social space (outside of China). You’re complaining about US platforms while implicitly acknowledging they are the best place you have to find interesting discussions online. It’s like the internet came along, offering opportunities to build these businesses to anyone in the world at super low cost, and most countries stuck their heads in the…

„Don’t complain about hard to change tires! Build your own car!!!“

Do you even know what it means to run a social platform?

Germany has had multiple social Platforms before Facebook.

StudiVZ Kwick

And even local ones like “Team Ulm”

They are all dead. Because social platforms live from scale.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#167

Post by pembrook »

i5heu wrote: post #166
pembrook wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s astonishing to me how little international competition there is in the social space (outside of China). You’re complaining about US platforms while implicitly acknowledging they are the best place you have to find interesting discussions online. It’s like the internet came along, offering opportunities to build these businesses to anyone in the world at super low cost, and most countries stuck their heads in the…

„Don’t complain about hard to change tires! Build your own car!!!“ Do you even know what it means to run a social platform? Germany has had multiple social Platforms before Facebook. StudiVZ Kwick And even local ones like “Team Ulm” They are all dead. Because social platforms live from scale.

> Do you even know what it means to run a social platform?

Hacker news has added no features for like 10 years and has two moderators. TWO.

Hacker news doesn’t do “growth.” It doesn’t send re-engagement emails. It doesn’t have an official app. It doesn’t run TV ads.

Yet it’s one of the most visited sites on the web. Any below-average software engineer could build and deploy a clone within a single day.

How is there not a German, Brazilian, etc. hacker news?

It’s mind blowing to me.

This isn’t even 1% the difficulty of “building your own car.” In fact, for many software engineers, building an HN clone would be easier than changing a tire.

I’m insanely skeptical of the idea you can’t find enough demand for a German language Reddit/HN in a country of 85 million educated people.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#168

Post by notahacker »

pjc50 wrote: post #161
mc32 wrote: post #14

What's a bit ironic to me is that this extension of US cultural hegemony used to be derided as cultural imperialism back a few decades ago before other cultural exports became vogue (Anime, K-Pop, etc.) when it was the US vs everyone else. But now, many of the people who would have decried this kind of hegemonic influence delight in it. They delight in the fact we can establish norms for communication and discourse n…

> Can you imagine corporate policy of SF or Menlo Park sets what people in Mumbai or Seoul can discuss regarding SARS-Cov-2? The thing is, for most countries, having the US policy has been far more liberal than what's allowed to be discussed locally. And the set of things you can discuss on social media is far broader than what you can get into the local media discussion. Having SF set policy has (mostly) been amazin…

tbf the anti-"woke" movement in the UK is the decades old British "political correctness gone mad" meme with an imported name.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#169

Post by nickelpro »

systemvoltage wrote: post #160
nickelpro wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's always been true? If you say something your boss hates, your boss has always been free to fire you. If you're a cashier and all the customers hate you, you're also getting fired.

I don’t think this is a matter of liking someone. Replace political views with religion and we provide protections against discrimination of someone based on their religion. Let me spell out the problem more clearly, it’s not as simple as your boss not liking you. 1) Coworker gets to find out someone doesn’t share their political beliefs. 2) They try to get moral superiority over the person … because disagreeing with…

I don't see how what your upset about is new or connected to social networks. McCarthyism existed two decades before the first networked computers and was the exact same thing as what you're describing.

I agree, people are shitty, but trying to legally limit the speech of people you don't like is exactly opposite the values of free ideas that we usually try to support. Or at least the ones that I support.

Re: Social media are turbocharging the export of America’s political culture

#170

Post by oarsinsync »

kwdc wrote: post #48
ehnto wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australians knew more about American politics day to day during Trumps presidency than we did our own politics. It was surreal.

Not being in the bubble makes it easier to see the absurdities of the US system. Also, watching journalists go after Trump for the wrong reasons was quite an eye opener. Especially when the many valid reasons to go after Trump were often not pursued deeply enough. Same applies to Hillary. And Obama. Just wow. Plenty of things Trump was attacked for promoting were in fact Obama-era initiatives. Journalism in the US is…

> I don't think its any better elsewhere. Was it ever?

The concentration of power in media organisations into a few large conglomerates has likely made things worse.

To that end, it logically tracks that things were better before consolidation, as there was a greater diversity of opinion / perspective being pushed by distinct media organisations.

Many were similar, but less by leadership design, and more by virtue of simply sharing similar views.

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