For me it was Harari who first stated that all modern ideologies like communism or liberalism are in fact just religions.
As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
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Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#532Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Few people understand that most religions e.g. Judaism and Christianity have an apologetic discipline – a deliberate arm open to debate. Open to talking about it, sure, but the crucial element that separates apologetics from real debate is that one side is forbidden from changing their mind. In religion there is a rule overshadowing the exchange of ideas that says, "no matter how convinced you are, or how weak your…
Do you believe this applies to Taoism? At least by my interpretation, it lacks many of the shortcomings of other religions.
The major religions and also secular ideologies each have their strengths, otherwise they wouldn't have millions of followers.
Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it expresses doubt in ability of a layperson to make a rational judgement on merits of a particular scientific research or process rather than on science itself.
I don't understand what this is supposed to mean. There is nothing in the context of "science itself" besides that particular scientific research or process. That's what it's defined as. Did you mean something like: a layperson might be inclined to place higher value on scientific research performed by a personal friend or colleague? That's probably true in some cases, but it's not "scientism."
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Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#534Becoming more religious has helped me identify religious tendencies in the secular world. Ideology doesn’t imply supernatural deities, and some worldly phenomenon can be elevated to a supernatural level. Secular belief contains rituals, origin stories, deities, saints, priesthood, blasphemy, vice & virtue just as religion does. One aspect of religion I appreciate is that these aspects are well codified and debated –…
That's some serious mental gymnastics you're doing there!
Al lot of what you call "religious tendencies" are just cognitive and organizational tools. Religions use and codify (some of) them in their own ways, and other aspects and approaches to human life use and / or codify in their own ways too.
Whatever leads you to wish for more structure and codification in your life and the world that surrounds, and you find them in religion, that's fine. Other people find them in military life, others in self-discipline, others in ascetism, others in their professional career, etc. But trying to impregnate your religious beliefs and choices onto everyone else is, I think, just trying to justify and shut down your own doubts. If you don't see this then, if I may put it this way, you may lack certain cognitive tools to recognize it.
Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#535After thinking about it for a very long time, I've come to believe that "religious faith" is ultimately a form of intellectual laziness, and every religious adherent of every faith that I've cornered after a nice meal and a few drinks has all but admitted as such.
Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#536Becoming more religious has helped me identify religious tendencies in the secular world. Ideology doesn’t imply supernatural deities, and some worldly phenomenon can be elevated to a supernatural level. Secular belief contains rituals, origin stories, deities, saints, priesthood, blasphemy, vice & virtue just as religion does. One aspect of religion I appreciate is that these aspects are well codified and debated –…
I don’t know. That sounds like a lot of overthinking.
Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#537I also think that religiosity is a neurological phenomenon and is as much a part of being a human as language, music, money or tool use. Nobody, including myself, can escape it. I see a lot of talk in this thread about making the definition of "religion" meaningless by broadening it too much, but I think the definition that gets narrowed in is "the phenomenon of humans engaging in dogmatic belief." A good example of…
> A good example of this is transhumanism, specifically, the idea that you can upload your mind to a computer.
Better examples might be what you can find in certain strands of rationalism: the simulation argument, that God (friendly AI) doesn't exist but ought to be created, that if the AI isn't summoned (programmed) in a very particular way it will be maximally dangerous, the Judgment day when the AI is brought online, and even intangible possible Hells through TDT and basilisk arguments.
I can't help getting the impression there's a weirdly distorted version of Christianity in there somewhere, and the reason it can survive is because its adherents don't recognize that that's what it is.
Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#538Becoming more religious has helped me identify religious tendencies in the secular world. Ideology doesn’t imply supernatural deities, and some worldly phenomenon can be elevated to a supernatural level. Secular belief contains rituals, origin stories, deities, saints, priesthood, blasphemy, vice & virtue just as religion does. One aspect of religion I appreciate is that these aspects are well codified and debated –…
This is a good summary of what I think Douglas Murray was explaining in this discussion with Sam Harris: https://youtu.be/yTtuCNPebDE
Namely; "we may be in the midst of the discovery that the only thing worse than religion is it's absence"
Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you believe you are not religious, it just means that you don’t have the cognitive tools to recognize the secular ideology that you have adopted. Not all secular beliefs are ideologies. I think there are two key common factors between religious beliefs and ideologies that call themselves "secular": First, people don't acquire the beliefs by considering and weighing evidence; they acquire them by being told them,…
> First, people don't acquire the beliefs by considering and weighing evidence; they acquire them by being told them, usually at a young age, by people they trust, and making them part of their identity. That's why people are so resistant to changing such beliefs. Second, the set of beliefs acquired in this way is not just a few isolated ones, but a whole network of beliefs that cover every aspect of life and are all…
This idea that science and technology is just another random religion is so frustrating, but I encounter it online way more often than I would expect. I don’t need to personally review and understand the details of why electricity and the internet work, because I am literally typing this message on an electronic device and sending it via the internet. No faith needed, and anyway.. I can go build a simple computer and prove it all out myself. The nature of the trinity, or sorting out whether hell exists or not and which religions are going there for which behaviors, is just a totally different endeavor.
Which is not to say that philosophy or religion are pursuits that should be banned or are worthless. I am just tired of the overused rhetorical trick of muddying the waters between them to confuse people and win arguments on the internet.
Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen
#540Yeah, people need to believe in something - faith is part of our human nature, and that's why it's a phenomenon across the globe. As an Eastern Orthodox, I don't need any ideology other than Orthodoxy, which defines my value system and which pretty much gives me an answer for all the good and bad happening; it's unifying, not dividing. That's why I have a hard time associating myself with any secular ideology, as the…
Interesting. I always found religion divisive. If I don’t believe in God then I can’t really take part in all these cool religious community stuff like church, boy scouts, etc.