Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 336 posts

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#151

Post by kwdc »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #139
stefan_ wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you read the article. Apple boosted their generic Files app above Dropbox for the query Dropbox . That is the controversy.

While this is an abuse of their monopoly powers, to me this is less bad than locking out 3rd party app stores. I never heard much complaining about that before Epic did their thing.

The whole point of gaining monopoly status is to be able to use and apply these kinds of manipulations. This doesn't make it right however.

Epic is one of a few large enough to make the necessary waves to have an impact. But behind Epic are thousands of unhappy app developers. Most of which are otherwise ignored. Also, complain too loudly and Apple has plenty of indirect ways to harm you. This is also an outcome of monopoly.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#152

Post by simondotau »

rovr138 wrote: post #65
Rubayo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It killed lots of apps. how?

People see that, don't understand the popup, get scared and stop using the app.

Do you think that all apps should have access to system events without asking permission? I sympathise with the frustration, and I agree that Apple could’ve done more to help less tech savvy users navigate the challenge of increased security. But every operating system is a series of trade-offs between developer convenience and having the system defend the user’s interests.

But if I was in your position, my response would be to do the best job I can to educate my users about this and hold their hand through the process as much as possible. If your competitors face the same challenges, doing this well could be a real competitive advantage.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#153

Post by nomoreplease »

musicale wrote: post #49

Apple PR: > we do not advantage our apps over those of any developer or competitor Apple employee Debankur Naskar: > I think the Files app was manually boosted ... during last WWDC. We are removing the manual boost So which of these is true? Or is PR technically correct because they do not currently "advantage" their apps?

For nearly a decade, they preferred to open addresses with Apple Maps instead of my preference of Google Maps. And they gave me no option to use Google Maps as the default. Apple defaulted to their own apps and I think they still do (I’m not sure if this changed)

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#154

Post by [deleted] »

egypturnash wrote: post #132
nexuist wrote: post #84

Does anyone else just…not care? Files is a system app like Windows Explorer. It’s not meant to “compete” with anything. Does anyone think Control Panel competes with Android’s Settings app? iCloud Drive is a cloud storage competitor that Files works well with, but Files also supports Dropbox and Google Drive and many other storage competitors (anyone who wants to implement the API gets to be in Files). Also, the argu…

If you dig down the email chain PDF you get to email from the head of Epic bitching about how a search for “Fortnite” comes up with ads for competitors first. He then goes on to use the ad for Files that showed up at the top of a search for “Dropbox” as another example. Half the time when I search for any app on the iOS store I get an ad for a knockoff at the top of the search, barely noted as an ad, this is a big pr…

[deleted]

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#155

Post by Spivak »

kwdc wrote: post #142
nexuist wrote: post #84

Does anyone else just…not care? Files is a system app like Windows Explorer. It’s not meant to “compete” with anything. Does anyone think Control Panel competes with Android’s Settings app? iCloud Drive is a cloud storage competitor that Files works well with, but Files also supports Dropbox and Google Drive and many other storage competitors (anyone who wants to implement the API gets to be in Files). Also, the argu…

If I search for something and its found, I expect it to be the first result. Not an ad for its competitor. I hate the manipulation of rankings that interfere in this way.

Huh? But that’s the whole business model of search ads. If you manipulate the organic results then shame on your whole family but sticking ads at the top is to me pretty benign as long as they’re clearly labeled — and on the App Store and Google Search they are.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#156

Post by keyb0ardninja »

rovr138 wrote: post #66
nobodyknowsyoda wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly off topic, but I do love the translucent terminal on the Mac. It is very cool

Pretty sure gnome-terminal and terminator both have this.

And konsole

(And pretty much every Linux terminal)

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#157

Post by Spivak »

mercer wrote: post #86
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also "noun" verbs. One I hear in SV is "an ask". I find myself a bit peeved by it but I don't know why.

Much as I tend to be in favor of language evolving, I react almost viscerally to 'compute' as a noun. It is a major irk.

What’s a better noun for “abstract resource I can use to do computations on?” Because computer is too general — literally encompassing everything, or too specific — as a synonym for a PC.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#158

Post by ttty2 »

astrange wrote: post #141
intricatedetail wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also don't pay the same taxes as small businesses. The market is completely rigged. Apple should be split and fined.

Apple is the largest taxpayer in the US. (and incorporated in California instead of Delaware, which presumably means higher fees)

2020: sales 247b, gross profit 109b, tax 9b.

Based on their official numbers: 8.25% tax

But... That tax is total tax with a bunch of stuff that might be delayed, so I'd say it's not really 9b in real terms..

But even so... That gross profit of 109b, is shady. I'm sure they put a lot of IP costs and crap like that to lower that number.

Considering all this, I'd say to the real tax they pay is less than 5%.

Source: https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/AAPL/financials/annua...

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#159

Post by kwdc »

Spivak wrote: post #155
kwdc wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I search for something and its found, I expect it to be the first result. Not an ad for its competitor. I hate the manipulation of rankings that interfere in this way.

Huh? But that’s the whole business model of search ads. If you manipulate the organic results then shame on your whole family but sticking ads at the top is to me pretty benign as long as they’re clearly labeled — and on the App Store and Google Search they are.

If I search for something and it exists, I expect to see it. If necessary put the ad after the result I expect to see. Even with them labelled as ads. That is a better approach.

The "its just how it is" kind of narrative isn’t great either. I'd never want to hear that from anyone implying they are innovators or creative types. Especially when the "how it is" aspect is something created as a matter of deliberate choice and not some natural law.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#160

Post by ttty2 »

helaoban wrote: post #101

> While Apple didn’t challenge the idea that Files was unfairly ranked over Dropbox, the company says the reality was a simple mistake: the Files app had a Dropbox integration, so Apple put “Dropbox” into the app’s metadata, and it was automatically ranked higher for “Dropbox” searches as a result. This seems to be the key argument, I've not seen this addressed anywhere. The Files app doesn't compete with Dropbox, if…

Files promotes their iCloud. How can you compete with that?

Scenario 1: you search Dropbox, but you get files. You install that. Then they bother you to use iCloud. You'll never look for Dropbox.

Scenario 2: you search Dropbox, you get to use Dropbox. I doubt you'll use iCloud.

You see who wins in each scenario?

Anyway.. I think there is no point wasting time building any apps for these giants. I doubt will provide any income for long term. Eventually will die.

Post reply on HN