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As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

theatlantic.com

261–270 of 823 posts

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#261
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money, medicine, “tolerance”, “racism”, politically incorrect language, natural selection, “the self,” public figures (CEOs, scientists, figureheads), celebrities, recycling, wearing masks, the super bowl, the oscars, the multiverse, the big bang, psychotherapy, anti-depressants, over-eating & dieting, conspicuous traveling, visiting nature, architecture. You can throw those into the religious categories e.g. virtue,…

... cheese, machine screws, steering wheel covers, arriving on time for appointments, the CIA, and Thursday. Have we left anything out?

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Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#262
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US has evolved into a modern dystopia > America's democracy may not even be a democracy > Republicans are currently digging themselves in to remove as much democracy Here's the ideological intensity that the article mentioned. This is delusional. The smartest, most driven people still come to the US to start businesses and seek fortune, because it's the best place in the world to do so.

> The smartest, most driven people still come to the US to start businesses and seek fortune, because it's the best place in the world to do so. Keep believing that myth.

If a highly-skilled individual wants to amass the most monetary wealth possible, which geographies do you think would be better than the USA and why?

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which person is more committed to a religion: someone who goes to a sermon 1 hr / week, or someone who watches the news for 3 hours / day? The news content will contain the same ideological elements of the sermon: where you come from, what you should believe, what you should do with your life, what is right / wrong.

News is made up of things that literally happened and often have video proof. Religion is made up of things that did not happen and have no evidence. If something does have evidence of being true, it is called history. You are confusing obsession and focus with religion.

>News is made up of things that literally happened and often have video proof.

In an ideal situation maybe, but very frequently it is manipulation. Videos are taken out of context or outright modified to fit a narrative. When you watch the complete video it is very often different than the 10 second clip shown on the so called news.

> Religion is made up of things that did not happen and have no evidence

Do you believe everything in the Bible is false or just certain parts? If you believe certain parts are accurate then I don't see how it is any different than news in your view.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#264
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, it feels true. I, like many Americans, know an enormous number of immigrants and poor people that moved into the middle and upper-middle class through hard work and discipline. There is still plenty of opportunity to do that US if you apply yourself. Economic mobility is very high in the US (which is distinct from social mobility). When I've worked in Europe, it has always been evident that this is much…

> Economic mobility is very high in the US Not so much. The U.S. is not even in the top 10 of countries for Economic mobility.

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Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#265
post #93

Becoming more religious has helped me identify religious tendencies in the secular world. Ideology doesn’t imply supernatural deities, and some worldly phenomenon can be elevated to a supernatural level. Secular belief contains rituals, origin stories, deities, saints, priesthood, blasphemy, vice & virtue just as religion does. One aspect of religion I appreciate is that these aspects are well codified and debated –…

> The secular world would benefit from adopting more formal definitions of their belief system. I think that would reduce the conflict and neurosis that comes from engaging a nebulous system.

If it did that, it wouldn't be able to use it a source of social control. What we have is a society of true believers, that's why they can't see it as a religion, it's just reality to them. I really don't think you can be a true believer and call your religion anything but "reality," especially a "religion."

Anyway, there have been some attempts at documenting American religion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion

> If you believe you are not religious, it just means that you don’t have the cognitive tools to recognize the secular ideology that you have adopted.

I think there are still a few people who aren't religious and I don't really think your criterion here is the most useful. It just begs the question.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> emigrants to other countries from America tend to stay American I don't think that's true of Australia. American Australians tend to assimilate pretty well, and after a while people tend to mostly forget they were Americans originally, even if they still have a bit of an accent. The Australian politician Kristina Keneally is an example. She was born in Nevada, grew up in Ohio, didn't move to Australia until her 20s…

Just googled Kristina Keneally. You're living out very relevant info. Born to and raised by Australian mother. Then married Australian man before moving to Australia. I think the blood and subsequent marriage connection helped immensely in how she is viewed. I think that would be the same for most other Euro nations. At least one parent of the land along with partner from the land and residing in the land for 30+ yea…

> Born to and raised by Australian mother

I really don't think most people care about the fact she has an Australian mother. In fact, I myself had forgotten that fact. If she hadn't, I don't think it would really make a difference to how she is viewed in Australia. (My mother was born in Scotland but calling myself “Scottish” feels weird, like the real Scots are going to call me out for being a fake one.)

Virginia Roberts Giuffre has been called an "Australian" by the Australian media (e.g. [0]) even though as far as I am aware she has no Australian ancestry. She is also married to an Australian man but I think you are putting more emphasis on that fact than what counts. Most Australians, if they think of her as an Australian, it is because she has adopted this country as her homeland through immigration, not because she married an Australian. If she married an Australian but stayed in the US, nobody would think of her as Australian. If she had moved here as a single person, or with a non-Australian husband, people probably still would.

In somewhat of the reverse, the British politician Patricia Hewitt was born in Australia and grew up here, but I'd probably think of her as British first and Australian very much second. The country in which she has lived the bulk of her adult life, and in which she has had her political career, is more significant in identifying her than where she was born and raised.

[0] https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/virgin...

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News is made up of things that literally happened and often have video proof. Religion is made up of things that did not happen and have no evidence. If something does have evidence of being true, it is called history. You are confusing obsession and focus with religion.

News is literally a story we tell each other to reinforce beliefs about the world. Truth has no relation to news and news is not about observation of fact. Even if you witness events yourself, your understanding of what occurred is a narrative you tell, not truth. All truths and history are interpretations within religious (or ideological) frameworks. Truth as we use the word is not attainable. There are no exception…

"A lie is a truth that you just don't believe in" - Conan O'Brien

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#268
post #93

Becoming more religious has helped me identify religious tendencies in the secular world. Ideology doesn’t imply supernatural deities, and some worldly phenomenon can be elevated to a supernatural level. Secular belief contains rituals, origin stories, deities, saints, priesthood, blasphemy, vice & virtue just as religion does. One aspect of religion I appreciate is that these aspects are well codified and debated –…

> If you believe you are not religious, it just means that you don’t have the cognitive tools to recognize the secular ideology that you have adopted

Or maybe you have a different definition of "religious" than I do? But no, it must be that I lack the right cognitive tools. Sheesh.

Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#269
post #93

Becoming more religious has helped me identify religious tendencies in the secular world. Ideology doesn’t imply supernatural deities, and some worldly phenomenon can be elevated to a supernatural level. Secular belief contains rituals, origin stories, deities, saints, priesthood, blasphemy, vice & virtue just as religion does. One aspect of religion I appreciate is that these aspects are well codified and debated –…

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Re: As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen

#270
post #257

>The secular world would benefit from adopting more formal definitions of their belief system. Just as the religious world contains Christians, Jews, Scientologists, Muslims, Hindus, et cetc" with sometimes radically different ideas, the secular world too has a great many different people with different belief systems. >If you believe you are not religious, it just means that you don’t have the cognitive tools to rec…

Regardless of whether "everyone is religious," everyone certainly has revelatory beliefs, i.e. beliefs that were not reasoned to. Christian thinkers have spilled a lot of ink attempting to clarify the boundary between reason and revelation whereas, in the secular world, many people do not seem to understand that many of their beliefs (particularly the foundational ones) are revealed.

You are confusing secularism with naturalism.
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