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Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

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Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#71

Post by intricatedetail »

codesternews wrote: post #28

Apple has made life of small developers hard. Mac software and app industry has died. Even after notarising apps they show malicious popup to users. Same practices has adapted by apple like search ad etc etc. They make competing services and steal ideas of developers and those app dies. For eg screen time for Moments app. They have unfair advantage and small developers could not complete. Only handful of indie develo…

They also don't pay the same taxes as small businesses. The market is completely rigged. Apple should be split and fined.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#72

Post by Nextgrid »

Rubayo wrote: post #34
codesternews wrote: post #28

Apple has made life of small developers hard. Mac software and app industry has died. Even after notarising apps they show malicious popup to users. Same practices has adapted by apple like search ad etc etc. They make competing services and steal ideas of developers and those app dies. For eg screen time for Moments app. They have unfair advantage and small developers could not complete. Only handful of indie develo…

Yet given all this, for a substantial cohort of customers, the Apple brand is still bought as a badge of "coolness".

The Apple brand is still where things mostly "just work". Sure, it's significantly declined in the last few years, but it's still ahead of Linux, and while Windows was great during the Windows 7 era and Microsoft definitely has the resources to compete, it seems like they're intentionally degrading the experience with Windows 10.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#73

Post by tracer4201 »

webmobdev wrote: post #63
tracer4201 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you answered the ops question. Was there ever a time that you could develop software for Mac or particularly iOS and distribute it without paying the developer license fee? To be fair - the Unix market is different than iOS apps. And on Windows, anyone could run whatever program… which caused a lot of problems and financial loss. And just because Windows or Unix used those models, why are they the one a…

Was there ever a time that you could develop software for Mac or particularly iOS and distribute it without paying the developer license fee? As I have said in my original post, that's the point it started going downhill for us developers on the macOS and ios platform; and as Apple continues to further abuse its position, it's time to say a clear no to their regressive and exploitive practices. And as I have said els…

> it started going downhill for us developers on the macOS and ios platform;

You didn’t answer the question. Was there a time you could develop and distribute on iOS without paying the license fee?

> If you are fine with a corporate abusing their control over their platform to exploit money from you, both as a developer and a consumer, then we don't really have anything else to discuss because of our differing economic / political belief on this subject.

This is a logical fallacy — begging the question — when you state a position as an absolute truth.

No one is “fine” with a corporation “abusing their control”. But your argument is based on the premise that charging for an SDK or charging a license fee to build and distribute on iOS or Mac is itself an abusive practice.

The counter argument is that it isn’t. Because anyone could develop and distribute software for Windows or Unix doesn’t mean that that is the only model and anything else is abuse, which you’re claiming as an absolute truth.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#74

Post by kelnos »

gruez wrote: post #13
mikestew wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the grocery stores that have many competitors who also sell groceries? How would you extend that analogy to the iOS App Store, which has no competitors whatsoever who sell iOS apps?

>You mean the grocery stores that have many competitors who also sell groceries? google? >How would you extend that analogy to the iOS App Store, which has no competitors whatsoever who sell iOS apps? By that logic costco has no competitors whatsoever that sell kirkland signature products.

> google?

> By that logic costco has no competitors whatsoever that sell kirkland signature products.

No, that logic does not compare at all. Google's groceries aren't fungible when compared to Apple's, and vice versa.

If you have been eating Apple's groceries but want to switch to Google's, you have to get your teeth, tongue, throat, and stomach replaced with Google-compatible versions. Plus all of the things you are currently storing in your fridge and freezer at home needs to be thrown out because they will no longer fit in the new Google-compatible fridge/freezer you have to buy. Oh, and for the things that need to be cooked, you'll also need to buy a new Google-compatible stove and oven.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#75

Post by tshaddox »

Rubayo wrote: post #34
codesternews wrote: post #28

Apple has made life of small developers hard. Mac software and app industry has died. Even after notarising apps they show malicious popup to users. Same practices has adapted by apple like search ad etc etc. They make competing services and steal ideas of developers and those app dies. For eg screen time for Moments app. They have unfair advantage and small developers could not complete. Only handful of indie develo…

Yet given all this, for a substantial cohort of customers, the Apple brand is still bought as a badge of "coolness".

I really don’t know how long I’m willing to buy this argument that Apple is a “luxury” brand or that Apple or its customers are disproportionately concerned about coolness or fashion. All the competing flagship smartphones have similar products at similar prices, including all the branded accessories, as well as extremely similar marketing and advertising. And at least in the United States, Apple has nearly a 50% market share, which makes it really hard to buy the narrative that people are only interested in Apple products because of Apple’s marketing and their desire to fit in or look cool.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#76

Post by threeseed »

codesternews wrote: post #28

Apple has made life of small developers hard. Mac software and app industry has died. Even after notarising apps they show malicious popup to users. Same practices has adapted by apple like search ad etc etc. They make competing services and steal ideas of developers and those app dies. For eg screen time for Moments app. They have unfair advantage and small developers could not complete. Only handful of indie develo…

> Mac software and app industry has died

And yet for me there are far more apps than there has ever been.

> steal ideas of developers

Nobody owns an idea.

> They killed the industry.

This notion that Apple killed the mobile apps industry which it arguably started is ridiculous.

We have companies like Instagram, Snap, WhatsApp, Niantic etc who built billion dollar businesses on the back of the iOS platform. And a wide array of small developers e.g. Calm who are likely to be the next billion dollar company. Not to mention all the indie developers who are thriving.

Those of us who run startups know how difficult it is to build a robust channel to market. And Apple gives you one on a silver platter for far less than what other ad platforms charge.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#77

Post by kelnos »

singlow wrote: post #48
abhorrence wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if we took the reverse analogy, this would be like a situation where depending on the model of car you owned you could only shop at a specific grocery store. Bought a Honda? Only Kroger for you. Ford? You get Albertsons. There's a sizable purchase with phones and computers that creates a cost to switching stores. There's no cost to me to go to Kroger one week and Albertsons the next. Something like Amazon is…

But if you have an android phone you can buy apps where ever you choose, even from the developer directly. There are alternative app stores. The market has a low barrier to entry. Apple only has control over consumers who chose for them to have that control. If you are selling an app to an iPhone user, you are selling to someone who only wants your app if Apple blesses it. If you are an Apple user that doesn't want t…

Agreed, but regular users might be put off by the scary warning you have to click through on Android to allow an install outside the Play Store. And there is no way to have non-Play apps auto-update. Even alternative stores like F-Droid are not allowed to do this; they have to put up a notification that updates are available, and for each app you have to manually confirm that you want to install the update.

Is this a better situation than on iOS? Yes, of course, definitely. But it's still not a level playing field.

> Apple only has control over consumers who chose for them to have that control. If you are selling an app to an iPhone user, you are selling to someone who only wants your app if Apple blesses it. If you are an Apple user that doesn't want that, then why did you by an Apple? Free yourself and buy a real computer or phone next time.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. People who are in the Apple ecosystem and not Android (and vice versa) have many different reasons for doing so, whether it's because iPhones are seen as a status symbol, or they believe that iOS is more privacy-protecting than Android, or they are in the Apple ecosystem for their desktop experience, and don't want to have to deal with frustrating interop issues. And a host of other reasons.

So sure, a person who buys an iPhone is choosing the restrictions imposed on them, but it's not because they necessarily actively like or want that. They just believe it's something that they will have to give up and deal with if they want the other things.

So no, no one held a gun to their heads and made them buy iPhones, but it's not just a binary decision on a single dimension as to whether or not you buy iPhone or Android.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#78

Post by hnick »

bombcar wrote: post #47
crazygringo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any uneven playing field when it comes to grocery stores. The national brands and store brands are always next to each other on the same shelf. So there isn't any problem that needs solving. Also brands already pay for promotional positioning (like the ends of aisles), and when the store puts its own brands in those spots it loses out on those payments, and so is effectively paying equally. So the field d…

You don’t see the brands they don’t carry at all. Only the brands they carry get displayed and they often make more money on the name brands anyway.

I've heard from a friend (in Australia) if you don't frequently buy placement you get bumped, and buying placement can be a losing proposition. They raise the price to squeeze all margin so it's just on the edge of making it affordable. You have to say yes to losing money during the promotion ("you'll make it up with brand awareness!") to claw it back by staying on the shelves in between. Otherwise another brand, or sometimes a house brand, takes your place.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#79

Post by bryan0 »

samatman wrote: post #69
donmcronald wrote: post #7

> > the Files app had a Dropbox integration, so Apple put “Dropbox” into the app’s metadata, and it was automatically ranked higher for “Dropbox” searches as a result. I can smell the bullshit from here and I don't live in the US. Lol.

I'm glad you quoted this because it's actually plausible. It's a given that Files is downloaded much more often than Dropbox: it's integrated with the rest of the iOS ecosystem and iCloud, I'm confident there are many more iPhone users with the Files app than with the Dropbox app. If they added a "Dropbox" metadata, that would organically return it on a search for "Dropbox", and being popular (and well rated presumab…

Apple’s statement is pretty clearly corporate BS because the internal email makes it clear the primary reason for the biased search results was the “manual boost”

> “We are removing the manual boost and the search results should be more relevant now,” wrote Apple app search lead Debankur Naskar

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#80

Post by etaioinshrdlu »

arthurcolle wrote: post #67
musicale wrote: post #49

Apple PR: > we do not advantage our apps over those of any developer or competitor Apple employee Debankur Naskar: > I think the Files app was manually boosted ... during last WWDC. We are removing the manual boost So which of these is true? Or is PR technically correct because they do not currently "advantage" their apps?

Their use of ‘advantage’ as a word reminds me of this classic Calvin & Hobbes strip. https://www.languagetrainers.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/201... Looks like the 80s/90s kids that were brought up on these skits are finally taking over!

You can also "noun" verbs. One I hear in SV is "an ask". I find myself a bit peeved by it but I don't know why.
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