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When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

zdnet.com

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Re: When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

#11

Post by Quarrelsome »

There are times where I envy the straight forward rationale of these beasts of burden we instruct in our daily routines. The name of the package is irrelevant to them, its just an identifier that represents a thing that does stuff.

As software engineers you'd hope we were some of the most logical peoples of this planet but then we find ourselves tripping over our own societal taboos and inferences we are perceiving that didn't even exist in the first place.

I mean I can understand the odd chuckle over the BackendInspector class but to take something to this level just over the name? I'd be interested to hear the full coverage that this got cause the original author appears to be completely distraught over the reaction:

http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/wiki?name=about-the-...

Makes me wonder what does more harm. A potentially offensive name or people's reaction to said name. I'm leaning towards the latter based on that link.

Re: When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

#12

Post by Mz »

I was surprised at how the article characterized the terms "pantyshot" and "upskirt" -- how extremely negative. My familiarity with the terms is not from porn but from celebrities who, whoops, get caught flashing their panties inadvertently in public. So to my mind this was relatively innocent activity and I would have never thought of it in the extremely negative way the article portrays it.

Also, people often have no idea how badly something like this will be viewed by others. I have seen several instances of that sort of thing here on HN and (IIRC) in every case where I have commented on it, simply informing them of how negatively their term was viewed caused them to change it (either the name of the product/site or some wording on it). They just didn't know.

Edit: Can anyone explain to me why this would be downvoted? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

Re: When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

#14

Post by teyc »

Python Package Index is a product of many years of effort by many people. It is not only used in hobby projects but also within enterprises. If Frank's actions harm PPI's upstanding, then he should volutarily leave PPI and distribute his packages through alternative mechanisms. All you need is for some nutcase to make fun of a prophet and lodge it with PPI for all of us to be tarred with the same brush.

Re: When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

#16

Post by ignifero »

There's another domain where predominantly white males give arbitrary names: Physics. While there are many examples of funny or quirky names there, none of them is offensive. For the extra reason that the innuendo loses its humor after the first time you use it, and these names are meant to stick indefinately.

P.S. Also Biology, but these people are not even comfortable with sonic the hedgehog.

Re: When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

#17

Post by russell »

btmorex wrote: post #10
russell wrote: post #5

This is interesting on multiple levels. There was the Python Software Foundation's decision to be reactive rather than proactive. Then why give it such a name? Esp. since the author was a woman. Who didnt speak English, and used a name suggested by a friend(?). There we arrive at what I consider to be reprehensible behavior: to expose someone to ridicule in the guise of giving help.

I'm not sure I would say she doesn't speak English. Check out her blog post about this: http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/wiki?name=about-the-... Especially: I did know the sexual and voyeurism connotations of the word “upskirt” and I was very hesitant to actually use it. For the record, my limited grasp of slang English means that I genuinely had no idea where it lied on the offensiveness scale, and whether it…

I stand corrected. Wow. Best to avoid slang in a language you dont understand very well.

Re: When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

#18

Post by russell »

rmc wrote: post #15

One reason you shouldn't name your software something like this is because it will be hard too google for. All the web results for this will be for the porn version of the name. You shouldn't name your software something that's hard for people to find

Kind of the inverse of rule 43. If you search for porn long enough on the internet, you will end up with software.

Re: When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

#19

Post by Mz »

russell wrote: post #17
btmorex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I would say she doesn't speak English. Check out her blog post about this: http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/wiki?name=about-the-... Especially: I did know the sexual and voyeurism connotations of the word “upskirt” and I was very hesitant to actually use it. For the record, my limited grasp of slang English means that I genuinely had no idea where it lied on the offensiveness scale, and whether it…

I stand corrected. Wow. Best to avoid slang in a language you dont understand very well.

Not just slang (I mean not just intentional use of slang). I used to talk to a man online who was very interested in politics. Because I am American and he was not (and I think English was like his fourth language), he routinely referred to President Bush as "your Bush". I'm female, so this made me very uncomfortable and I finally asked him "Do you know what that means in English slang?" He wasn't attempting to use slang, but boy did it sound bad to me.

There are all kinds of landmines when you try to speak another language. I have lots of humorous/embarrassing stories from growing up in a bilingual family.

Re: When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy

#20

Post by possibilistic »

ignifero wrote: post #16

There's another domain where predominantly white males give arbitrary names: Physics. While there are many examples of funny or quirky names there, none of them is offensive. For the extra reason that the innuendo loses its humor after the first time you use it, and these names are meant to stick indefinately. P.S. Also Biology, but these people are not even comfortable with sonic the hedgehog.

Biologist here.

The Drosophila community is rife with humorous (and sometimes offensive) gene names like "Cheap Date" (ethanol sensitivity), "Ken and Barbie" (genitalia fail to develop), and "Fruity" (male fruit flies show no attraction to females) -- that one was so controversial it got renamed "fruitless".

http://flybase.org/reports/FBgn0004652.html

The research communities for organisms such as E. coli tend to think this practice is immature. Genes should follow a specific nomenclature: fis (factor for inversion stimulation), mot (motility), etc.

This issue with software has been around a while, too. A ton of people dislike the name "Gimp", for instance.

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