Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing? • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#141

Post by jjcon » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 4:59 AM UTC

poopypoopington wrote: post #129

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

Lack of national healthcare really puts a damper on free labor movement in the US. You want to start a company but also have health insurance for your family? That'll be $12,000 with a massive deductible... Gets in the way of a lot of would be entrepreneurs

If you aren’t raking it in personally you can just get a cheap option from the exchange - if you are raking it in you can afford it

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#142

Post by ddalex » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:00 AM UTC

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

On the other hand the people in EU are happier, have better social protection, better benefits, better health systems, better consumer protection, better application of rules and laws, they make for more productive employees. Do the shareholders get as rich as fast as in the hyperactive US economy? Not, but the society functions better. I very much prefer the EU.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#143

Post by thijsc » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:01 AM UTC

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

Reporting back: Your comment is utter nonsense. There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well!

Reliable and cheap health care is a huge boon for small entrepreneurs. There’s little regulation to deal with as a software company. Child care and great schools are cheap or free.

Yes firing people is much harder, that is a different context compared to the US you have to properly plan for. Which we do over here.

Overall many countries in Europe are amazing places to start a business in.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#144

Post by hermitdev » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

contriban wrote: post #134

mc32 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm with the anecdote of an acquaintance in the EU. Nothing fancy. Just a hair salon. He was complaining about the authorities coming down to inspect it, looking for the smallest details to fine him. Sign was the wrong size, it wasn't illuminated the right way. Something about serving tea. It seemed absurd to me. On the other hand, it was a nice place to get a haircut.

Can confirm. My parents own a restaurant in Italy and if the authorities come it’s a € 2000/3000 fine for sure. For a small seasonal business that’s substantial. For example if you give a receipt and the customer misplaces it on the way out and can’t find anymore, you’re liable for tax evasion. Never mind that the POS has its own registry they can check. For the authorities, “you didn’t give a receipt, so they can’t…

> For the authorities, “you didn’t give a receipt, so they can’t tax you.”

Honest question: is this actually the law, or a tactic of an official seeking a bribe?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#145

Post by reader_mode » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:12 AM UTC

poopypoopington wrote: post #129

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

Lack of national healthcare really puts a damper on free labor movement in the US. You want to start a company but also have health insurance for your family? That'll be $12,000 with a massive deductible... Gets in the way of a lot of would be entrepreneurs

The EU is no different with regards to movement. Just consider public health care in say Norway and in Bulgaria. Yeah it's financed indirectly by public funding but the quality can be terrible. In Croatia (where I'm from) you will regularly wait for 6+ months on life altering procedures and tests. And the public health system is in a constant crisis because of underfunding and overuse - just a few months ago drug suppliers cut off a few big public hospitals because the debt was insane (and the entire system is operating with billions of debt rolling over for years).

The upside is because of such huge disparities in standard of living, if you can work remotely you can afford to use all private healthcare that's actually decent and affordable by western standards (it's built for medical tourism for western countries).

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#146

Post by 238475235243 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:14 AM UTC

anchpop wrote: post #118

238475235243 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it may have lengthened it. Oncologists are still in la la land about the genetic (as opposed to metabolic) theory of cancer, it's not clear when they will wake up.

Can you elaborate on this?

Cancer as a metabolic disease by Prof. Seyfried. Available on Amazon. Good starting point.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#147

Post by Dma54rhs » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #65

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

On the other hand, people here don't tend to go bankrupt and lose their house, healthcare (ironically) and life (from a social aspect) in general when they don't have a perfect health. They don't have to hide their state of wellbeing from their employer in the hope of not getting fired, and they don't have to worry about living on the street because they don't have a job for a bit. Businesses are fun and all, but in…

You need to be employed in order to get Healthcare in most of the EU countries anyway, so it's not all that rosy as Americans tend to think.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#148

Post by grey-area » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

underwater wrote: post #29

okareaman wrote: post #9

The opening paragraph: In 1984 a besuited 20-something American executive on a visit to France offered Europeans a few tips for corporate success. Entrepreneurs needed to be given a second chance if they failed and government bureaucrats made for lousy investors, he told a television interviewer. His advice was sage. But European companies ruled the global corporate roost alongside those of America and, occasionally,…

On the other hand, Steve Jobs rejected conventional medicine when he became sick, which may have contributed to his premature death.

He had a liver transplant. Which treatment did he reject?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#149

Post by SOMA_BOFH » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:17 AM UTC

ddalex wrote: post #142

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

On the other hand the people in EU are happier, have better social protection, better benefits, better health systems, better consumer protection, better application of rules and laws, they make for more productive employees. Do the shareholders get as rich as fast as in the hyperactive US economy? Not, but the society functions better. I very much prefer the EU.

have you tried to start a company there?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#150

Post by reader_mode » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 5:18 AM UTC

thijsc wrote: post #143

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

Reporting back: Your comment is utter nonsense. There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well! Reliable and cheap health care is a huge boon for small entrepreneurs. There’s little regulation to deal with as a software company. Child care and great schools are cheap or free. Yes firing people is much harder, that is a different context compared to the US you have to properly plan for. Which we do over…

> There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well!

Is there really ? I see attempts at copying the US tech scene, but a lot of it seems structured to suck money out of government funds and programs. I see very little private investment. Just recently I talked to a local VC, in a casual chat about how they started their fund I found out they pulled money out of a EU fund, they had to put up like 25% of the money and the rest was just EU grants to stimulate entrepreneurship. Do I need to say that their portfolio looks like a garbage bin of knockoff attempts and small businesses masquerading as startups.