Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#621

Post by clcaev » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

wouldChuckIt wrote: post #601

stemlord wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist. I spent a mere year after college living with my parents, a very long and sad year, wondering if this was going to be the rest of my life. My next real job came somewhat out of sheer luck and I'm thankful for it because I could totally see myself having given up, still back there to this day, still having no idea how…

Made a throwaway for obvious reasons. I'm in the middle of that year right now. I was doing well - transferred from community college to a top university studying engineering. Perfect grades, several prestigious summer internships. Then I had a depressive episode. Grades went down the toilet, had to leave school. Spent a year getting my life back together, but the depression never really went away. I went back to sch…

The only advice I can provide: build things. It does not matter what: social, digital, or physical. Affect the world that surrounds you, don't be its effect. Good luck. You've got it in you. It's hard, but you'll pull though.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#622

Post by smolder » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

JoeyBananas wrote: post #547

username90 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist Nah, lots of people just tend to follow the path of least resistance at the moment. They don't assume that others will support them forever, they just aren't thinking about it since it is bothersome. If they were forced to do other things then they will do other things, since the force changed what path has the least…

I agree with you, it might not necessarily be narcissism that causes someone to always do the bare minimum in life. What it really comes down to is lack of discipline.

What it often (of course not always) comes down to is that they have experienced some trauma or unfairness that ruins their trust in the delayed reward systems that the survivor contingent happily takes advantage of. It's a much greater emotional load to maintain discipline when you experience setbacks that are out of your control, even partly. If 100 people break the law and 10 get the book thrown at them and 90 get away free, those 10 made a bad choice but they also were unlucky. The bad luck part will tend to weaken the cognitive biases that help people stay motivated, i.e. the just world fallacy, and move their locus of control outward. Risks become less appealing. Satiating immediate wants and needs over investing in long term ones may seem rational.

How do you address this issue? I think it's cheaper and better for everyone to address unfairness than to try to fix people after they come to feel abused by the world. It would also be better than the status quo of Social Darwinism with a sprinkle of charity and busted social programs.

Dear downvoter, I'd be interested in reading why I deserved it.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#623

Post by doubleunplussed » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:24 AM UTC

ziziyO wrote: post #557

deadite wrote: post #532

>The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. Men are socially adept in their society and a society of their peers. Just not in this one which seeks to break them down and punishes them for not being women.

When all you’ve known is privilege, equality can feel like oppression.

You are probably directing this at men, but I've also heard this directed at women who were surprised to find out that working unpleasant jobs full time is actually not the greener grass they thought it was.

Or women picking a physical fight only to be shocked at a man fighting back.

Or women being surprised at being sentenced to jail when they expected a slap on the wrist.

The list goes on.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#624

Post by grammarnazzzi » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:25 AM UTC

jdgoesmarching wrote: post #580

deadite wrote: post #532

>The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. Men are socially adept in their society and a society of their peers. Just not in this one which seeks to break them down and punishes them for not being women.

There’s a lot of validity to the social struggles of men in a lot of online discourse, but to say “society“ punishes us for not being women flies in the face of almost every useful metric of socioeconomic success. Women did not create the society that is hurting men emotionally and economically. Buying into that victim complex is a distraction from your own self-development and healing.

> Women did not create the society that is hurting men emotionally and economically

The extreme elements of 3rd wave feminism has influcenced society in ways that unfairly and negatively impact boys.

Specifically the concept of "toxic masculinity". Toxic people are toxic. Toxic behaviors are toxic. Toxic people should be shamed and toxic behaviors should be discouraged.

Boys should not be shamed for being masculine, and masuclinity should not be discouraged.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#625

Post by refurb » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:25 AM UTC

spideymans wrote: post #506

paulpauper wrote: post #382

I don't think it's a tragedy. The overly dramatic media and pundits get this all wrong in labeling it such. Young people are simply responding to incentives to live at home longer. Living expenses keep going up relative to inflation and wages, such as home prices, rent, insurance, etc. Living at home is a good way save money, even for the employed. Family formation is expensive and fraught with risks such as divorce…

More succinctly, why work when we have nothing to work for? Anecdotally, I just graduated from university and am gainfully employed. I'm really happy to be employed, yet I quickly realized that I have no idea what I want to do with all this money. I'm never going to be able to buy a house. I'm not particularly enthusiastic about having kids, and don't think I can afford children in the first place. I have no major li…

Do you have any stock picks you can share? You sound very confident you know how the next 20 years are going to unfold, so I wanted to check.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#626

Post by BeFlatXIII » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #116

vidanay wrote: post #104

I really wish this stigma against living "at home" would go away. Multigenerational homes has been the standard for thousands of years, and still is in large portions of the world.

I both agree and don't at the same time. On one hand, there shouldn't be anything shameful about living "at home", especially if it's purposeful. (looking back, it probably would have made sense to stay with my folks even longer than I did in order to save more money) Yet living at home and not building anything into late adulthood tends not to be a good way to generate intergenerational wealth. Until the internation…

How many of these people will make the children on to whom they pass nothing?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#627

Post by vel0city » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

spideymans wrote: post #576

rewgs wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say that you're never going to be able to buy a house, but maybe will end up retiring before you're 40? Sounds like, in lieu of anything else, you should try and buy a rental property or two. Start slow, eventually FIRE, that whole thing. That said, yeah, the same sentence could then be applied but with time: "why retire when I have nothing to do with my time?" I'm 30 and still don't have a great answer fo…

>Why do you say that you're never going to be able to buy a house, but maybe will end up retiring before you're 40? It's not necessarily about being able to afford a house, but rather about whether home ownership is the best option financially when compared to other options. 20 years ago, homes were so cheap that I'd be willing to buy a home just for the sake of being a homeowner and enjoying the security that entail…

In a market with rapidly escalating home prices, assuming you're interested in living in the same area for a long time (>5 years probably, depends) buying a house can be a good bit of a hedge against real estate inflation. Home prices going up (usually) drive up apartment prices. My mortgage won't change, maintenance costs won't change, property taxes might. But if my property taxes go up, you can bet rent prices are going to go up by at least that much, probably more. How many apartment complexes rent 5 year leases?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#628

Post by manigandham » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

spideymans wrote: post #506

paulpauper wrote: post #382

I don't think it's a tragedy. The overly dramatic media and pundits get this all wrong in labeling it such. Young people are simply responding to incentives to live at home longer. Living expenses keep going up relative to inflation and wages, such as home prices, rent, insurance, etc. Living at home is a good way save money, even for the employed. Family formation is expensive and fraught with risks such as divorce…

More succinctly, why work when we have nothing to work for? Anecdotally, I just graduated from university and am gainfully employed. I'm really happy to be employed, yet I quickly realized that I have no idea what I want to do with all this money. I'm never going to be able to buy a house. I'm not particularly enthusiastic about having kids, and don't think I can afford children in the first place. I have no major li…

You can retire before 40 but cant afford a house? That doesn't add up.

Also do you realize that billions of people on this planet have a far worse life than you? You have the luxury of having problems like these. However purpose and meaning don't just appear out of nowhere, you have to actively go find them.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#629

Post by ivankolev » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #166

anthonygd wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right about dating apps not really favoring either gender. Hiring is the first thing I think of when reading about dating apps. There's just a very strong natural imbalance. Dating apps are especially good at making people not have to face their shortcomings, i.e. I don't have to fix my shortcomings, because with a large enough pool there's going to be someone broken in the right way to accommodate me.…

> Hiring is the first thing I think of when reading about dating apps I agree for a different reason. The circus show about hiring is mostly bullshit. You could probably randomly select qualified candidates and turn out just fine. Likewise with dating, ordering up another human like a sandwich creates a weird dynamic designed to keep you shopping — you stop paying when you meet someone. If you paired 10 pairs of aver…

Doing things together in groups, which leads to almost by definition having to build relationships, including romantic, seems like the best way, and that's how things were before Internet. Some commenters above hit kind of the same notes, and I wonder, maybe an app that builds a mixed group of men and women to do some activity together offline, would result in better outcomes. Of course this will be gamed in no time by the bad intentioned. I think the truth is, that finding a mate has always been a crapshot, and largely random, through out history of life itself. Internet does not seem very successful as a mating platform, I have never been a user of dating apps so what would I know, but maybe on average it's just a little better than randomly stumbling on potential life partners. Still, going out and meeting people instead of staring in screens feels more natural to me.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#630

Post by cjohnson318 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #366

cjohnson318 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. There's nothing wrong with the way female teachers teach.

Is that what I said? I said that these young men don't have strong positive male role models.

> These guys grew up in a school system of almost entirely women teachers...

Implies there's something wrong with the way women teach.

If you meant to say, "young men don't have strong positive male role models", something most people would agree with, then you should have said that.