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AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

theregister.co.uk

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Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#31

Post by jcheng »

jallmann wrote: post #8
rbanffy wrote: post #2

I'd love to be able to go back to the diverse ecosystem we had in the 80's, but I don't see how an architecture that deviates significantly from the x86 norm could gain traction in this Windows world.

I don't think this is meant to replace the x86 ISA, but rather SIMD units like MMX/SSE and traditional GPU shaders. The article was a bit muddled -- I'm waiting for the Anandtech version. Successful adoption will be dependent on good tooling. Auto-vectorizing is really hard in compilers, mostly because current languages aren't really built for it. But if AMD were to introduce something purpose-built (eg, with a Matla…

The R language (http://www.r-project.org) is inherently well suited for auto-vectorizing. There are a couple of packages for GPU-accelerated processing already--currently heavily skewed towards CUDA though.

http://cran.r-project.org/web/views/HighPerformanceComputing... (scroll down to "Parallel Computing: GPUs")

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#32

Post by jcheng »

jallmann wrote: post #8
rbanffy wrote: post #2

I'd love to be able to go back to the diverse ecosystem we had in the 80's, but I don't see how an architecture that deviates significantly from the x86 norm could gain traction in this Windows world.

I don't think this is meant to replace the x86 ISA, but rather SIMD units like MMX/SSE and traditional GPU shaders. The article was a bit muddled -- I'm waiting for the Anandtech version. Successful adoption will be dependent on good tooling. Auto-vectorizing is really hard in compilers, mostly because current languages aren't really built for it. But if AMD were to introduce something purpose-built (eg, with a Matla…

Here's the AnandTech writeup (and as you expected, it's way better than the Register one): http://www.anandtech.com/show/4455/amds-graphics-core-next-p...

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#33

Post by gaius »

rbanffy wrote: post #2

I'd love to be able to go back to the diverse ecosystem we had in the 80's, but I don't see how an architecture that deviates significantly from the x86 norm could gain traction in this Windows world.

Consider this: probably the majority of "enterprise" developers today are working in Java. And they would rather run their code in a JVM on a PC than on a dedicated JavaStation/SunRay/whatever. That's the kind of entrenchment you would have to overcome.

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#34

Post by rat »

gaius wrote: post #33
rbanffy wrote: post #2

I'd love to be able to go back to the diverse ecosystem we had in the 80's, but I don't see how an architecture that deviates significantly from the x86 norm could gain traction in this Windows world.

Consider this: probably the majority of "enterprise" developers today are working in Java. And they would rather run their code in a JVM on a PC than on a dedicated JavaStation/SunRay/whatever. That's the kind of entrenchment you would have to overcome.

otoh a lot of enterprise java code is probably tied to windows in some fashion. And linux runs best on x86.

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#35

Post by jwatzman »

r00fus wrote: post #26
rbanffy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see that happen, but we have been predicting the demise of Windows since the last century but Windows is still going strong. Inertia is a powerful thing.

Everyone was thinking years ago that no one could displace IE as the dominant browser - that Microsoft could and would pull every dirty trick in the book to kneecap the competition and outcompete with mass developers. Now look - Firefox is sitting comfy, Chrome is a rising star, and on mobile, webkit browsers owns the whole place. Windows can and will fall. If Microsoft is smart, they'll be the ones that put it to re…

The difference is that with a web browser, you can switch from IE to a superior browser and all your favorite web sites will still work (apps built for IE6 compatibility notwithstanding). This isn't true of switching from x86 Windows to some-other-OS on some-other-architecture -- your existing special-purpose business apps won't work. You have to switch everything out.

That's not to say that Windows can't get displaced, but that it's a lot different from displacing IE. You can't just switch from Windows and have nearly everything working the same from day 1.

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#36

Post by rcxdude »

binarycrusader wrote: post #21
rbanffy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With AMD's support for GPUs under open-source? Their lack of support in the past (to the point of not even properly documenting their hardware) is not very encouraging.

AMD properly documents their GPU hardware now, and has for at least the last three years. The real issue at hand is that the open source drivers are incredibly horrid. It's hard to write drivers, surprise!

they're catching up right now though, AMD is putting a significant amount of effort into the open source display stack.

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#37

Post by drewvolpe »

codedivine wrote: post #15
azakai wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5 years from now, it won't be a windows world. Consumers will be spending most of their time using iOS, Android, and Windows Mobile devices. That sounds about right, except what is Windows Mobile doing there? It's a pretty tight race for third place, and I wouldn't bet on Microsoft there.

Who would you bet on? The only other players are RIM/Blackberry and WebOS and I am not too sure how well they will hold up.

Yeh, I put them on the list because I do think they'll slide into the third slot. Their deal with Nokia gives them good reach, especially in emerging markets. Also, they have a huge warchest of funds and the patience to loose piles of money in order to get market share in an important market (XBox, Bing, ...).

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#38

Post by azakai »

codedivine wrote: post #15
azakai wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5 years from now, it won't be a windows world. Consumers will be spending most of their time using iOS, Android, and Windows Mobile devices. That sounds about right, except what is Windows Mobile doing there? It's a pretty tight race for third place, and I wouldn't bet on Microsoft there.

Who would you bet on? The only other players are RIM/Blackberry and WebOS and I am not too sure how well they will hold up.

RIM has much more marketshare in developed markets, and it can still turn things around.

WebOS has a technology advantage over Microsoft's offering, but a bad starting point. Still, I would not rule HP out.

But to be honest, I am not sure third place will be a significant thing. The mobile market is looking to repeat history with how things turned out on the desktop. Do we care much about third place there? Not really.

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#39

Post by eru »

sigil wrote: post #29
jallmann wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is meant to replace the x86 ISA, but rather SIMD units like MMX/SSE and traditional GPU shaders. The article was a bit muddled -- I'm waiting for the Anandtech version. Successful adoption will be dependent on good tooling. Auto-vectorizing is really hard in compilers, mostly because current languages aren't really built for it. But if AMD were to introduce something purpose-built (eg, with a Matla…

> But if AMD were to introduce something purpose-built (eg, with a Matlab-like syntax), then that might compel devs who aren't assembly or GPU gurus to develop against this. Does anyone know if it's possible to program GPUs today without using a new, special purpose programming language? That would be the killer app for GPUs. I see your point about most languages not admitting auto-vectorization. But couldn't you tak…

> Does anyone know if it's possible to program GPUs today without using a new, special purpose programming language? That would be the killer app for GPUs.

Haskell has an embedded domain specific language for it. (It's probably a monad.)

Re: AMD's master plan to topple Intel - Back to the top on a radical GPU

#40

Post by eru »

jwatzman wrote: post #35
r00fus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone was thinking years ago that no one could displace IE as the dominant browser - that Microsoft could and would pull every dirty trick in the book to kneecap the competition and outcompete with mass developers. Now look - Firefox is sitting comfy, Chrome is a rising star, and on mobile, webkit browsers owns the whole place. Windows can and will fall. If Microsoft is smart, they'll be the ones that put it to re…

The difference is that with a web browser, you can switch from IE to a superior browser and all your favorite web sites will still work (apps built for IE6 compatibility notwithstanding). This isn't true of switching from x86 Windows to some-other-OS on some-other-architecture -- your existing special-purpose business apps won't work. You have to switch everything out. That's not to say that Windows can't get displac…

Most applications aren't speed critical, so on some-other-OS on some-other-architecture you'd probably get away with virtualization / emulation.
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