Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

chronicle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 379 posts

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#151

Post by b9a2cab5 »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #134
scarmig wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College admissions' treatment of Asian American applicants is the most explicit form of institutional racism in the US today. It's the kind of racist discrimination that, if applied against any other group, would get the perpetrator sued to oblivion.

Honestly, anybody that says Asians are institutionally discriminated against because they are a slightly lower percentage at Harvard, even though there are a lot of Asians at Harvard, is basically saying people of all kinds, including other Asians like me that can’t get into any kind of elite school don’t matter and are inferior. It’s insulting, at this point, and the anti-AA Asian groups that further this ideology a…

If you read the article I linked, you'd know that they aren't just a slightly lower percentage but are systematically rated lower on the "personal" axis by Harvard admissions officers simply because they are Asian. It's insulting, at this point, that people like you continue to claim there's no systemic discrimination despite _court discovered evidence_ to the contrary. The only other explanation for the gap in personal ratings is that you think Asians as a group have less of those traits than other races, which is racist in itself.

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#152

Post by b9a2cab5 »

fighterpilot wrote: post #148
barry-cotter wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ll just look at your family name and make an educated guess based on school demographics and your hobbies, or look you out or parents up on social media. They’re not stupid. They know who they’re discriminating against

But they don't really care about what the applicant's race is. What they care about is how that person contributes to the metrics they're trying to maximize, or in the case of Asians, minimize. To them, a 1/4 Black person 3/4 Asian person, and a full Black person, are exactly the same thing, as long as they're both incrementing the same number in their diversity report.

Ah but they do. See this person that was Indian (but raised in Nigeria!) but pretended to be black to get into med school [1].

"I was always in a state of terror that I would be found out. During one interview at Case Western Reserve University, I was confronted by a black doctor and admissions committee member. He barraged me with questions about my family and personal background. I said that my family came from Nigeria. It was technically correct because my Indian parents had lived in Nigeria before moving to the United States.

Finally he said, eyes cold, in more of a question than a statement, “I read your application. It says you’re black.” I nodded."

[1]: https://nypost.com/2015/04/12/mindy-kalings-brother-explains...

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#153

Post by rejectedandsad »

b9a2cab5 wrote: post #151
rejectedandsad wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, anybody that says Asians are institutionally discriminated against because they are a slightly lower percentage at Harvard, even though there are a lot of Asians at Harvard, is basically saying people of all kinds, including other Asians like me that can’t get into any kind of elite school don’t matter and are inferior. It’s insulting, at this point, and the anti-AA Asian groups that further this ideology a…

If you read the article I linked, you'd know that they aren't just a slightly lower percentage but are systematically rated lower on the "personal" axis by Harvard admissions officers simply because they are Asian. It's insulting, at this point, that people like you continue to claim there's no systemic discrimination despite _court discovered evidence_ to the contrary. The only other explanation for the gap in perso…

That is irrelevant. The degree to which some people state the importance of this is extremely insulting to Asians like me that went to state schools that are not terribly selective.

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#154

Post by chriskanan »

sokoloff wrote: post #11

> Faculty members at prestigious universities are 50 times more likely than the average person to have a parent with a Ph.D. American meritocracy has become a complex, inefficient, and rigged system conferring its graces on ambitious children of highly educated and prosperous families. What’s the ratio in other fields of top achievement for kids to follow in their parents’ footsteps? It’s entirely unsurprising that a…

Definitely seemed very true during my PhD. Many of my peers had PhD or professor parents (I don't). I think the primary reasons for the increase are valuing the career through parents and having a mentor who knows the admissions game. I blundered my first couple times applying because I lacked good mentorship in preparing my applications.

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#155

Post by kingsuper20 »

yaboy wrote: post #74
scarmig wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College admissions' treatment of Asian American applicants is the most explicit form of institutional racism in the US today. It's the kind of racist discrimination that, if applied against any other group, would get the perpetrator sued to oblivion.

Clearly you’ve never been pulled over by a cop for a DWB — Driving While Black.

Have you? How did it go down?

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#156

Post by BurningFrog »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #132
BurningFrog wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they really selecting for intelligence though? The SAT, which actually does that fairly well, is on its way out.

If success in college is indicative of intelligence, then the low correlation between SAT scores and college success would argue against your claim.

It's easy to find seemingly well informed smart people who claim that, and also those who claim the opposite.

Outside physics, there is always a study that supports whatever you want to believe, so we can all keep believing whatever feels good, while being supported by Science!

I like to think I'm different. But odds are I'm not...

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#157

Post by bluedevil2k »

zumu wrote: post #131

I think this whole debate is centered on the shallow idea that "going to an Ivy League" in and of itself is what ordains "elite-ness". To unravel this, you first must consider the actual value proposition of Ivy Leagues relative to other schools. Firstly, undergrad in America, especially at private schools like the Ivy Leagues, is more a daycare for rich kids, than it is a place of scholarship and learning. The educa…

> Firstly, undergrad in America, especially at private schools like the Ivy Leagues, is more a daycare for rich kids, than it is a place of scholarship and learning

Way to stereotype thousands of people you don’t know at places you’ve never been.

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#159

Post by b9a2cab5 »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #153
b9a2cab5 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article I linked, you'd know that they aren't just a slightly lower percentage but are systematically rated lower on the "personal" axis by Harvard admissions officers simply because they are Asian. It's insulting, at this point, that people like you continue to claim there's no systemic discrimination despite _court discovered evidence_ to the contrary. The only other explanation for the gap in perso…

That is irrelevant. The degree to which some people state the importance of this is extremely insulting to Asians like me that went to state schools that are not terribly selective.

I am an Asian who went to a state school and I don't think it's irrelevant. Regardless of Harvard's prestige giving a whole class of people lower "personal" ratings because of their race is racism, pure and simple. I even see startups like Canvas/Jumpstart [1] that explicitly allow recruiters to filter applicants by race. I don't know how this isn't illegal and I hope someone sues them.

I took a look at your post history and it seems very bitter about lost opportunities due to "elite" schools being preferred. As a fairly recent grad from a state school I offer my own perspective: private schools like Harvard offer much better support and less cutthroat competition, but if you can rise to the top in state schools then you have the same opportunities as everyone else. Making 300k at Facebook is more than accessible to half the UC's including ones you wouldn't consider elite at all. I know many people working at Big 4 accounting, bulge bracket banks, big tech, startups, VC, etc.

[1]: https://www.canvas.com/

Re: It’s time to break up the Ivy League cartel

#160

Post by torstenvl »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #149
torstenvl wrote: post #37

I strongly disagree. Having elite schools is far far better for upward mobility. Being a poor kid and going to Harvard is a far more effective ticket to the upper middle class than any alternative the author proposes. Sure, you could theoretically dilute academic signaling strength, by force, to the point of homeopathic levels - but who does that help? Whose life completely changes for the better by attending such an…

I disagree because you’re succeeding at the expense of the rest of us. Have you considered 99.5% of people will never step one foot on an elite school campus? I’m sick of society being catered to your whims while the rest of us are dismissed as stupid and innately less qualified. Objectively speaking, my life is absolutely terrible BECAUSE of elites like you hoarding opportunity and people like me getting nothing bec…

I'm sorry you feel that way. Before you make up your mind, I hope you consider that this is what I grew up in:

https://imgur.com/Hw9zH9j

I worked hard in high school to get a scholarship to a third-tier state school, where I worked hard to get good grades and improve my logical reasoning skills enough to do very well on the LSAT.

Nothing about society was ever catered for me. I had to fight very, very hard.

And yes, I know others work just as hard and don't get the same opportunities. I'm not claiming the current system is perfect. "Ya gotta take care of business, ya gotta go to school, ya gotta get good grades to even have a chance... I'm talkin' about a chance! You might not make it, but you sure as hell won't if ya don't try." ~Hillbilly Elegy

For all its imperfections, it's a lot better than the proposed alternative.

Post reply on HN