29 here, living at home. I do have somewhat of a career though.
I Honestly don't know when I'll leave. I have the skills to live alone, but my self-esteem is so low and my social life so limited that it gets really scary to leave.
Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
581–590 of 1001 posts
Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#582>The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. Men are socially adept in their society and a society of their peers. Just not in this one which seeks to break them down and punishes them for not being women.
When all you’ve known is privilege, equality can feel like oppression.
This sounds like the kind of equality that communism created in the 20th century. The sort where all but a few are miserable and impoverished.
Of course, that’s most of human history. Until very recently life was nasty, brutish, and short. We seem to be trying our best to revert to that condition.
Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#583Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#584what do these young men have to look forward to in life? home ownership and having a family probably seem so financially out of reach that kids are not even trying.
I'd suggest this represents the dividing line between Millennials and Generation Z.
Millennials (at least those who graduated before the 2008 financial crisis) had legitimate aspirations of home ownership, starting a family, and achieving the typical American Dream milestones. Many of them have not given up those dreams, despite numerous setbacks. On the other hand, Generation Z never had those aspirations in the first place. They don't expect to ever own a home. They understand the nuclear family is financially unreachable. Life milestones after university graduation by and large do not exist for Gen Z kids.
Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#585Earlier quoted context omitted.
I completely reject everything that you are saying. A grown man (or woman) who is dependent on their parents at that level has very serious problems because they are the equivalents of obese domestic dogs in a world full of wolves. Left to their own devices, they would have nothing. A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist. They take it for granted that other…
>A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist. I spent a mere year after college living with my parents, a very long and sad year, wondering if this was going to be the rest of my life. My next real job came somewhat out of sheer luck and I'm thankful for it because I could totally see myself having given up, still back there to this day, still having no idea how…
I am talking about people who are orders of magnitude less motivated than you and do nothing to improve their situation. These people probably never went to college or dropped out just to stay home and play video games. In your case, working a low paying job as a college graduate is actually highly virtuous. Some college grads would rather do nothing because they think they are hot shit.
Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#586Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist Nah, lots of people just tend to follow the path of least resistance at the moment. They don't assume that others will support them forever, they just aren't thinking about it since it is bothersome. If they were forced to do other things then they will do other things, since the force changed what path has the least…
I agree with you, it might not necessarily be narcissism that causes someone to always do the bare minimum in life. What it really comes down to is lack of discipline.
I've mostly done the bare minimum in life, at things that I didn't want to do. I agree I'm undisciplined. It took a long time to find my own path, and something to strive for.
I think your labels are part of the problem. They're not narcissists. They're people. And you look down on them just for being people.
If you want to help them, perhaps treat them as equals and listen to them rather than thinking of ways to change them.
I wish I knew their gamer tags so that I could play a few rounds of halo with them, or whatever they like to play. They seem chill.
Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#587>The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. Men are socially adept in their society and a society of their peers. Just not in this one which seeks to break them down and punishes them for not being women.
There’s a lot of validity to the social struggles of men in a lot of online discourse, but to say “society“ punishes us for not being women flies in the face of almost every useful metric of socioeconomic success. Women did not create the society that is hurting men emotionally and economically. Buying into that victim complex is a distraction from your own self-development and healing.
Most kids spends their first 15 years mostly surrounded by women. Their doctors, their kinder garden teachers, their school teachers etc. Almost every authority figure is a woman there. If those boys have problem I feel it is ok to say that it is mostly those grownups fault, and they happen to be mostly women.
Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#588>The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. Men are socially adept in their society and a society of their peers. Just not in this one which seeks to break them down and punishes them for not being women.
When all you’ve known is privilege, equality can feel like oppression.
In my country, there are 50% more women in colleges than men, and our colleges still work more to attract more women (with eg. girls-only workshops, etc... we used to call this segregation and/or sexism back in my time).
Lets say you have Alice and Bob... they both finished college, both are looking for a job, and they both decide to start their own company - Alice will make plastic spoons, and Bob will make plastic forks. Alice can get 5k eur from our government, because she's a woman.
Men also tend to work more (hours and years), and live less (less years of retirement), but in many countries still get lower pensions than women for the same money paid in the pension fund. In my country this has been equalized now (same payments, same amount of money, only for new retirees), but relatively shorter lives are not accounted for anywhere.
Safe houses for men?
Lets say Alice and Bob meet at a party, get drunk, have sex and a condom pops... we give Alice numerous ways to get rid of the unwanted baby, and Bob just has to hope, she won't want a kid at the moment, so he'll be able to avoid 18-26 years of child support. Paper abortion ideas are laughed at and oposed by "he shouldn't have sex if he doesn't want to take care of the baby"... but the same argument can be used for a normal/real abortion (except in case of rape).
Media treats women more preferably then men, pointing out the greater tragedy in case of women deaths, and even in cases of paedophillia use "nicer words" for women - eg "schoolteacher had sex with 13yo boy" instead of calling it statuatory rape.
In other countries (eg. usa) there are many more cases of casual sexism against men, even some that are illegal in many other countries, eg. women-only scholarships.
Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#589Earlier quoted context omitted.
Costs for raising a child is almost certainly lower, and they can likely work towards their top pay range before the age 25
So the country getting richer made us poorer?
Imagine you are a farmer - you don't have trouble finding space for your kids to play or where to house them, like a person living in a modern megacity might. You probably live with or near extended family, and they can often take care of the kids while you are busy, whereas we now have expensive daycare and carehomes, etc.
Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home
#590>The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. Men are socially adept in their society and a society of their peers. Just not in this one which seeks to break them down and punishes them for not being women.
There’s a lot of validity to the social struggles of men in a lot of online discourse, but to say “society“ punishes us for not being women flies in the face of almost every useful metric of socioeconomic success. Women did not create the society that is hurting men emotionally and economically. Buying into that victim complex is a distraction from your own self-development and healing.
Well put. I had a much less constructive take on this comment, since deleted, because it wreaks of insecurity that's causing so much of this problem.
My dad was great, but through divorce, I had other great male role models, none of which you'd consider "feminine." However, it helped me understand the plurality of what it means to be a man. There are many ways to embrace your "natural" manhood that are beneficial to society. Animals rape each other, but we're not animals. Don't fall for the naturalistic fallacies.