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Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

bigtechnology.substack.com

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Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#241

Post by cratermoon »

krapp wrote: post #224
cratermoon wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People want a social network Do they, though?

Of course they do. Social networks bridge the gap between publishing and communication for the public in a way that has been absolutely transformative in many people's lives, and many people do want that and find that useful. People want to chat with and share media with their friends and affinity groups. They want to follow trending or interesting subjects. They want to post cat pictures and memes.

Outside the SiliValley bubble, though?

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#242

Post by andreilys »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #237
andreilys wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, everyone will be better off if Facebook, Google, and Amazon are shattered into small enough independent pieces that (1) "get bought" is no longer the startup win condition & (2) they have peer level competitors in all markets in which they participate. I’m sure Chinese Tech co’s would absolutely love to have their Western competition knee-capped by their own governments. Will make it a lot easier for them to do…

If we protect out markets from all monopolies, foreign included, we'd end up with tons of competitive companies all scrapping to be the best. Instead what we've got now are monoliths that will gradually ossify into cable-company levels of innovation and customer service. Breaking up domestic monopolies would be one of the best things we could do to compete internationally.

Breaking up domestic monopolies would be one of the best things we could do to compete internationally.

International monopolies will be able to expand into the US and burn cash to acquire users and grow market share. Then when they've run all domestic companies out of business, they will raise prices.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#243

Post by betwixthewires »

paulpauper wrote: post #53

>The bills may change before they’re introduced, and they’ll inevitably go through a political process that will water them down. But even if only a portion of what’s written gets passed, the tech giants will lose several advantages they’ve exploited in recent years. Yeah that is the rub. It's like in 1998 "we're gonna break up Microsoft!" 2002: "ok Microsoft will agree to make some some changes to their business but…

Normally I'd agree with you, but I've been thinking on this for a while and when you look at history this is not the case. Prominent examples are Southwestern Bell and Standard Oil. The elected officials in the US government are happy to take campaign contributions and play the game and let the monopolies run wild, but when their behaviors threaten the monopoly of power the US government has or threatens political stability the US government acts, sometimes very heavy handed and often effectively.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#244

Post by andreilys »

not_exactly__ wrote: post #211
andreilys wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, everyone will be better off if Facebook, Google, and Amazon are shattered into small enough independent pieces that (1) "get bought" is no longer the startup win condition & (2) they have peer level competitors in all markets in which they participate. I’m sure Chinese Tech co’s would absolutely love to have their Western competition knee-capped by their own governments. Will make it a lot easier for them to do…

I think it’s a somewhat false dichotomy that splitting up US big tech makes China big tech win. The reason being that splitting up US big tech allow for more competitive US mid tech to arise that can outcompete China big tech in areas where it matters. I suppose you also want to prevent China Big Tech to throw its money around at Mid Tech the way US big tech did in the last 10-15 years.

Why wouldn't an international tech co just be able to acquire domestic companies and/or launch products at a significant loss to gain market share in the US?

For example, break up Amazon and you now create an opening for Alibaba to expand into the US. Spending billions in order to get customers to shift to Alibaba instead of Amazon.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#245

Post by NaturalPhallacy »

flapjaxy wrote: post #9

It still baffles me how these laws have such broad support but ISPs and telcos are no where in the discussion.

>Bill 4: Merger Filing Fee Modernization Act of 2021

>This bill from Rep. Joe Neguse would increase fees for mergers and help fund the regulators.

>Text: “There is authorized to be appropriated for fiscal year 2022— $252,000,000 for the Antitrust Division of the Department of Justice; and $418,000,000 for the Federal Trade Commission.”

Isn't tech specific, let alone big tech specific. Huge fan here.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#246

Post by betwixthewires »

Jcowell wrote: post #164
bogwog wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> acquisitions are part of what make the startup ecosystem work. That's such BS. A startup whose only business plan is to get acquired doesn't deserve to succeed in a competitive market. If that route becomes nonviable and a bunch of silicon valley startups go under, then good riddance. The US economy needs startups with sustainable business practices and highly competitive products and services. Not acquihire scheme…

My question is why not ? If it’s something thriving in the competitive market why should it not be allowed to succeed ?

I'm not who you're replying to, but I don't think that's what he said. They should be allowed to succeed, but building a product under the guise of competing in the market with the end goal of getting bought is grimy. It's one thing if you make something new and valuable and you take an offer for it, it is entirely another to make something that deliberately competes with google for the purpose of getting bought to stifle competition.

In the article they talk about a bill designed to prevent tech companies from buying competitors to squash them, but with the potential consequence of stopping startups that have that as a business model, and that is framed as a negative consequence. They're saying this is a positive consequence, and I have to agree with them. If what you made is really a competitive product then it should be able to be profitable on its own. If it can't be it isn't actually competitive and should fail.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#247

Post by not_exactly__ »

andreilys wrote: post #244
not_exactly__ wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s a somewhat false dichotomy that splitting up US big tech makes China big tech win. The reason being that splitting up US big tech allow for more competitive US mid tech to arise that can outcompete China big tech in areas where it matters. I suppose you also want to prevent China Big Tech to throw its money around at Mid Tech the way US big tech did in the last 10-15 years.

Why wouldn't an international tech co just be able to acquire domestic companies and/or launch products at a significant loss to gain market share in the US? For example, break up Amazon and you now create an opening for Alibaba to expand into the US. Spending billions in order to get customers to shift to Alibaba instead of Amazon.

Well that was the gist of my last sentence regarding not letting external Big Tech behave like current Big Tech.

ps: fwiw, I’m against breaking up BigTech. It makes for good headlines but I don’t think it solves much.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#248

Post by nullc »

nicolashahn wrote: post #235
tmp_anon_22 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if Facebook got truly broken up worse apps would take its place, particularly in communities outside US jurisdiction. Say what you will about Facebook, but I believe some random FB employee can't just dive through my personal messages without consequences. Having met several, I believe their data scientists go to great lengths to strip PII and generally secure data sets in transit between teams and outside pa…

Facebook employee here. A significant chunk of onboarding is driving the message through that if you abuse your powers as an engineer to access personal user data, you will be insta-fired without warning. There are a number of checks in place to ensure that employees that don't need access to the data for their specific work cannot get it either. Additionally, the privacy review process for new products/features is e…

> you will be insta-fired without warning.

And not also sued and reported for criminal prosecution?

Because if someone didn't particular want a job at facebook, but interviewed for the experience and got the job or had been working there and wasn't happy there and was ready to quit-- the threat of instant termination alone may not be that much of a deterrent.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#249

Post by repsilat »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #239
repsilat wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Ads today are almost indistinguishable from organic content > If that's the problem then there should be specific rules addressing that. Honest question, why? If ads make the experience worse for users then the page owner will suffer and be vulnerable to competition. If they make the experience better (possibly by raising money to fund unrelated improvements) it's pro-consumer. Is the problem that it's deceitful?…

I don't have a view on that. My point is just that specific rules addressing a specific problem are better then vague rules justified by a specific problem.

Ah, thanks. I agree, and I think it'd be a good point to raise and consider even if I didn't.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#250

Post by krapp »

cratermoon wrote: post #241
krapp wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they do. Social networks bridge the gap between publishing and communication for the public in a way that has been absolutely transformative in many people's lives, and many people do want that and find that useful. People want to chat with and share media with their friends and affinity groups. They want to follow trending or interesting subjects. They want to post cat pictures and memes.

Outside the SiliValley bubble, though?

Of course outside the bubble. It's really only on HN that social media is assumed to have no redeeming value beyond acting as a platform for corporate mind control, propaganda and culture war, but for most people social media is just a way to communicate and stay entertained. My mother, who can barely even use a computer, keeps in touch with her relatives and gets pictures of her grandkids and keeps up with her COPD support group on Facebook. Obviously social media has value to her and many, many other people.
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