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Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

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Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#451

Post by grogenaut »

plif wrote: post #168
grogenaut wrote: post #151

I'm trying to get my son and his girlfriend to live at home for a few years post graduation. He wants to move out into a place in seattle. She's a bit more about saving money. The math is that they'd have all loans paid off and a 200k down payment about 4 years out of college if they live with us, and they'd have loans paid off if in 4 years and Important side note: they're both major home bodies so they wouldn't tak…

Something about the savings math doesn't check out, especially given the NEET aspect. 200k savings in 4 years out of school is a lot.

It's quite easy. He's a creative writing major. His girlfriend however has a good shot as a FAANG job. Running an Amazon / Microsoft / etc Seattle SDE1 job with no raises, at $120k a year, 27k in loans and $9k / year in room/board at our house == ~275k. Of which over 4 years, 90k is a lot to spend over the top for 2 kids who don't leave the house and only want pc upgrades.

Versus them spending about $4k/month on living expenses out of house, 48k/year.

That's also assuming she has a FAANG job, not say, the same expenses but $58k/year starting data eng job.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#452

Post by alxwu »

perplex wrote: post #413
holoduke wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same life till my 26th. I then stopped watching television, threw all games away and started studying computer science. I am so happy about that move. I am 40 now. Own multiple IT businesses and have a happy family. Game/TV addiction is really dangerous. You don't have to be a depressed person to fall into it.

For some people (myself included) Game/TV addiction is a real problem and can have drastic affects on ones life. (It did for me throughout my 20s/30s). For others it doesn't seem to have negative side effects. My life was held back by time spent gaming for so long and later in life I realized TV was doing the same. Moderation in all things right? For me it is easier to cut them out period. I'm happier and have a far…

I'm in my mid 30s and I am going through this addiction of reddit/youtube and other distractions for the past 10 years. I've always known how harmful it is and I want to change. Do you have any tips for someone like me? I was still able to become an engineer, but I feel like I can be better. Like everyone else my motivation and drive was so much higher when I was younger. I might be using these distractions as a form of escapism for my depression.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#453

Post by throwaway306744 »

tetranomiga wrote: post #218
bektok2 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time for some tough love and kick them out. Not doing them any favors enabling their laziness.

He said, in a time of record unemployment and low wages that are impossible to live off of. Almost like there are other factors at play here than just men being lazy. HN loves to forget that not everybody can be a FAANG employee or has the desire to sit in front of a computer writing code their whole lives.

I'm a male FAANG employee in my 30's living with my parents.

It's nice. My dad makes us lunches, my mom cooks dinners, and I do yardwork. My girlfriend lives a few miles away with her parents, who are great. We regularly eat with one family or the other, and we often sleep together at one house or the other. We use the family cars.

Except for the job, we'd be considered failures for this nice life.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#454

Post by nineteen999 »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

I don't even understand how this happens. I was kicked out of home at 16. Neither of my parents would have allowed me to stay at home until my thirties.

Then again, I'm a father now and I can't imagine ever asking my daughter to leave home. But I would definitely expect her to have a job and contribute to household expenses well before her 30's.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#455

Post by foobar33333 »

whiskyant wrote: post #241
tetranomiga wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said, in a time of record unemployment and low wages that are impossible to live off of. Almost like there are other factors at play here than just men being lazy. HN loves to forget that not everybody can be a FAANG employee or has the desire to sit in front of a computer writing code their whole lives.

You can live off of minimum wage. Maybe not in some places like big cities, but certainly if you moved to cheaper cost of living locations.

From what I understand, the problem is not minimum wages, but unstable employment. You may be getting paid an acceptable amount but at the drop of a hat your employer will say that you aren't working next week which is much harder to cope with than earning less but knowing you will have x in the bank every week.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#456

Post by grogenaut »

gnicholas wrote: post #189
plif wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about the savings math doesn't check out, especially given the NEET aspect. 200k savings in 4 years out of school is a lot.

Yeah $200k of savings in 4 years is maybe $40k/yr of savings, plus optimistic investment returns for the first 3 years. But GP also mentioned all loans paid off, so that adds another $10-20k/yr, depending on what their loans look like. It's not impossible to save that much money straight out of school, but if you're making that much then you could still save a decent chunk even if you're paying $2k/mo for an apartmen…

Several of my young amazon coworkers had 500-800k at 4 years out of college with the stock going up. One basically retired (he is very frugal and allergic to everything and never goes outside) at 4.5 years.

I'm just pointing out the possiblities for them.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#457

Post by hcho »

magicsmoke wrote: post #330
lotsofpulp wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life? I suspect quite a few people are looking at the odds of achieving various goals, and simply changing the goals. Such as owning a home in desirable areas, or having kids if you cannot afford a food school district or a job that allows you to be home for dinner. Or if you have experienced income instability, and you do not feel c…

> Or if you have experienced income instability, and you do not feel comfortable bringing children into the world. Yet poorer developing nations have higher birth rates than developed nations. Is it because they have lower expectations for what their children need to live a "good" life, that they just have more hope that things will work out somehow, or that they somehow don't care about these concerns?

Some species gravitate towards an r selection stategy when the living conditions are unfavourable. It might well be encoded in our lizard brains.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#458

Post by monksy »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #405
monksy wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If instead he's referring to apps like Bumble where the woman has to make the first move, see above for why some apps choose to operate with that model. Under that model.. it's common for the first message to be "hi" or ".". Not much has changed.

What a lot of ignorant men don't realize is that's the woman saying "you start the convo." Not everything is meant to be interpreted literally in dating and relationships. If you believe that, you're doing it wrong.

I realize it is. Doesn't mean that I have to tolerate that or accept it. Be a human, start a conversation.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#459

Post by grogenaut »

majormajor wrote: post #237
plif wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about the savings math doesn't check out, especially given the NEET aspect. 200k savings in 4 years out of school is a lot.

Sounds like it was only the man who wasn't inclined to work, and that the woman has been changing that tendency, as well as presumably having a decent income of her own that's being considered here. So something north of 50K after tax per year for a two-income couple isn't too ridiculous by any means. 185K delta between the two scenarios feels wrong, though - that's almost 4k a month, an astonishing high rent bill fo…

There's a spectrum. I only listed 2 options.

One end is living at home with a faang job. The other is them living on cap hill with around 3800 / month expenses and the 58k income you mentioned. The 3800 is her estimate which checks out.

There are obviously many more options in the decision matrix but this is a HN post :)

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#460

Post by dtwest »

paulpauper wrote: post #438
nxc18 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem comes in when their parents die and they have no path to supporting themselves. Not everyone has an inheritance to look forward to. Living at home and working isn’t really a problem, but entering the labor force at 40+ is not going to go well.

Millions of jobs were lost due to Covid, many permanently. This was on top of jobs lost in 2008-2010. Each wave permanently removes a bunch of people from the workforce. Pre-2008 it was easier for the unemployed to rebound and find work even without advanced degrees or advanced skills. Not anymore. So there are a lot of people not contributing, either on disability , living with friends or parents, or on some form of…

How is that in validation of MMT?

We ran a huge deficit this year supporting the economy during covid. We are also seeing a spike in short term inflation and a weaker dollar. Treasury bond yields remain low but there is increasing speculation that decades of low rates could soon reverse.

Also are you attributing all value generated by Bezos's or Musk's companies to only them? What about all of the great people they employ?

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