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Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

bloomberg.com

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Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#311

Post by leetcrew »

echelon wrote: post #286
hardwaregeek wrote: post #223

Video game addiction is a real problem. I spent my freshman year of college rooming with man-children who played video games non-stop. They didn't explore the city, they didn't meet new people, they just played video games in the dark, screaming into their headsets and eating their takeout at their desk. People can certainly have a healthy, fruitful relationship to video games but since then I haven't felt the need t…

I know people are different and I'm not wired the same way, but I have trouble understanding how people can play games for more than a few hours a week. Games like Pac Man and Tetris are algorithmic workloads. It's not much different than driving a semi or forklift, except you're not paid by a company for the work you do. It puts human brains closer to acting and performing as algorithmic worker bee agents. Modern AA…

I kinda agree with you. as I get older, more games feel like repetitive work than fun. I think I finish some games more because I want to feel like I got my money's worth than because I actually enjoyed them.

still, some multiplayer games get me absolutely hooked for a while. a well-designed multiplayer game can be a never-ending stream of novel situations. open-ended puzzle games like factorio are always fun (for me) with a couple good friends. for some reason it never feels like work, even though it's fairly close to what I just did from 9-5.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#312

Post by lotsofpulp »

belorn wrote: post #269

What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life? I ask this because much of the undertone in the article and in this thread is about the failure of meeting the gender role expectations that are put on young men. Do they have a job and a car? Have they studied hard so they can get a good job in order to support a wife and kid? Culture in the last several decades have hammered do…

> What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life?

I suspect quite a few people are looking at the odds of achieving various goals, and simply changing the goals. Such as owning a home in desirable areas, or having kids if you cannot afford a food school district or a job that allows you to be home for dinner.

Or if you have experienced income instability, and you do not feel comfortable bringing children into the world. I probably would not have if I did not find a spouse with income in the top two quintiles. Not that there’s nothing wrong with the alternative, but different people have different risk tolerances and higher (perceived) volatility can be a cause for change in some population wide changed we are seeing.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#313

Post by jplr8922 »

whiskyant wrote: post #201
UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

It's the parents fault for coddling them. If they kicked them out at 18, the nephews would definitely need to work and may realize the importance of having a better job/career.

I think the term 'coddling ' is not the best. I grew up during the 90's in a hyper-controled environment by a macho dad and a passive mom. I was told to not become an artist, to not travel when I am young (waste of time), to learn how to drive a car, to get a job, get a degree, all that jazz. The thing is, at 32, I still have no sense of purpose in life.

When all the goals are chosen for you, it does not matter if you were over-protected or not. You cannot build true self esteem and confidence if you don't succeed and/or fail at a dream of your choice. There is no point learning to drive a car if you do not know where you want to go, to earn money if you don't know what you want to buy, and to get into a career if you have no sense of purpose.

Videogames are addictive not only because they are fun, they provide you with a goal and 'achievements'. In my humble opinion, sex for the sake of sex (real or porn), promotions for the sake of promotions or else are all caused by the same emotional male problem ; the inability to feel emotions and learn from them what is truly important for yourself. The % of young men in the labour force is just a symptom of that.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#314

Post by yibg »

teawrecks wrote: post #307
belorn wrote: post #269

What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life? I ask this because much of the undertone in the article and in this thread is about the failure of meeting the gender role expectations that are put on young men. Do they have a job and a car? Have they studied hard so they can get a good job in order to support a wife and kid? Culture in the last several decades have hammered do…

When I was probably 18 I asked a friend/coworker who was going to community college what they wanted to do after college and they just didn't know. I couldn't wrap my head around that. As far back as I can remember, I always had an answer when an adult asked me "what I want to be when I grow up". It wasn't always a coherent answer, but I always knew what stuff I found interesting. I don't know why it's different for…

I think you might be the odd one out here. I don't have stats for it, but looking at myself and people around me, most didn't really know what they want to do for a career after school. School typically doesn't really prepare you well for figuring out what you want to do, especially secondary and prior.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#315

Post by devonkim »

depressedx wrote: post #282
david-gpu wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a psychologist, but I would guess that playing games at all times is more a symptom than a cause. A symptom of depression? A coping mechanism for chronic anxiety? A happy well adjusted person does not try so hard to escape reality or responsibilities. Demeaning them by calling them man-children is not going to help them in the slightest.

Depression is often characterised by a struggle in finding the motivation / desire to do something you love: if they love video games and can play them 12 hours a day, it's very possible they simply... don't care about the outside world. A job, family, exploring the world, these are all things some people just don't like. They don't have to have mental illness in order to spend their lives doing one thing!

Depression also manifests with addictions though through self medication like alcohol, drugs, and even video games. It gets trickier with comorbidities like ADHD where one has addictive tendencies resulting in what appears to be simple lack of motivation and laziness at a surface level.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#316

Post by tuatoru »

JPKab wrote: post #191
UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

Do you think that video game addiction contributes to this kind of thing, or is the video game addiction a coping mechanism? I think video game addiction is an incredibly underreported and highly destructive phenomenon. I encounter (and had to fire a few days ago) lots of young men who don't appear to ever sleep, and are highly unproductive, unmotivated, and constantly distracted. The kid I had to fire (I call him ki…

I think "is it a cause or a symptom?" is a valid question and deserves serious thought. Upvoted.

I worried about my own son playing video games incessantly through his teens and twenties, but now at 28 he has been holding down a stable job for a year and I have got good reports from his employer. He's still a loner IRL though.

Would I worry so much if he were a gym rat or ultramarathoner-- an "exercise addict"? Good question.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#317

Post by partiallypro »

thepasswordis wrote: post #304

So many comments here seem to miss the point here. These aren’t men who are working, but saving money living at home. They’re not participating in the labor force at all .

It doesn't say where the cross over it, we can assume that -some- are living and home and don't participate at all, but that's not how the stats are calculated. They are calculated separately, but the article is saying there is a connection (duh) but it's not the only factor for people living at home.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#318

Post by atweiden »

supertrope wrote: post #297
atweiden wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of this problem is our societal failure to build enough housing to keep up with the increasing number of people. The issue is human overpopulation, not our society’s “failure” to destroy the fabric of closely knit communities. Humans are by far the least efficient life form on this planet, and what little enjoyment most humans get out of life mostly comes down to the integrity of their local communities: their…

Without economic growth we’d still be hunter gatherers. Growing crops allowed people to have excess food and support classes of people whose occupation was non-food related. The industrial revolution not only allowed for mass production but the Haber process by which fossil fuels are turned into fertilizer. Without it we would only be able to feed half the world.

Technological advancement and human overpopulation are orthogonal concepts. It’s perfectly reasonable to believe the planet is heavily overpopulated with humans and also that technological advancement is desireable.

There is very much not a direct relationship between absolute number of humans, and technological advancement. This is increasingly true as we inch closer to AGI.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#319

Post by leetcrew »

zabzonk wrote: post #290
echelon wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people are different and I'm not wired the same way, but I have trouble understanding how people can play games for more than a few hours a week. Games like Pac Man and Tetris are algorithmic workloads. It's not much different than driving a semi or forklift, except you're not paid by a company for the work you do. It puts human brains closer to acting and performing as algorithmic worker bee agents. Modern AA…

> I'd rather just have a movie or narrative Open world games _are_ the equivalent of movies or narratives. think Skyrim, for example.

I think the point is you actually have to do stuff (often menial collect n of thing tasks) to advance the plot. once the suspension of disbelief is broken, you are no longer a valiant hero saving the kingdom. you are pushing buttons to complete arbitrary tasks that trigger the next cutscene. if you don't enjoy the core gameplay, why not just cut out the tedium and watch tv or a movie?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#320

Post by throwaway803453 »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

My 45 year old sister is that way now and to a lesser extent my older brother was too. I lost _decades_ of sleep over their situation.

Ultimately I didn't know anything when I left home at 18 and I figured it out. Other people can too. How long does it take to learn how to drive, open a checking account, cook, pay bill, etc. after all ? You can learn these things privately over the Internet so there's no longer a social stigma holding you back. To digress, I eventually taught my older brother responsibility, job skills (he worked at my business), how to file taxes, basic math, etc. He became even more bitter and resentful and then one day broke down and admitted how painful it is to know nothing useful and most of what he does know he had to learn from his little brother. But eventually he started just Googling instead of calling me when he had a question he should know the answer to.

I truly feel sorry for these lost souls and if I hadn't been naturally good at math, I'd likely be one of them.

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